 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Simon
Date: 2005-02-22 22:32
My son who is 9 years old has just started private clarinet lessons at the local conservatorium of music. One of the things that the teacher has pointed out is the the way he is positioning and holding the instrument with his right thumb. She says that the inside of the thumb if I can put it that way should be parallel with the bore in which case the finger nail will be paralle with the bore as well. Now I have been playing the clarinet for many years and I find this very dificult to do my self. I would have thought having the thumb in such a position so as the finger nail is facing up would be more natural. Please advise of what you think is the correct way and perhaps are there any diagrams on the web that demonstrate this.
Many thanks
Simon
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Author: VermontJM
Date: 2005-02-23 00:26
My suggestion is to get either a Ton Kooiman Etude thumbrest or a neckstrap- the instrument is probably too heavy for him.
By putting the thumbrest on the nail, the thumb is going to be squished into a weird position and alter the shape of the hand and move the fingers to a bad position- this is why having the pad of the thumb more against the bore is important.
At only nine, it is quite possible that he lacks the strength in his hand to hold the instrument properly. The thumbrest and/or neck strap would help.
goodluck!
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-02-23 01:02
It might simply be a matter of how one's hand is shaped. In a relaxed state, my hand looks like simon's son teacher describes, but a friend of mine's hand looks the other way. Each of us thinks the other's hand looks very unnatural. I've just gotten a tech to raise my thumbrest; he'd like to have his lowered.
Whether one of us has deformed our hands through clarinet playing, I don't know. However, since Simon and his son both hold it the same way, perhaps it's genetic?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-23 01:04
"She says that the inside of the thumb if I can put it that way should be parallel with the bore in which case the finger nail will be paralle with the bore as well."
hmm- that's how my thumb is. However, I remember that when I first started playing, my finger nail pointed up. And I was told to change. And what I notice is that people who play like that...or the people I know... get calususes (sorry, I cant spell!) on their thumbs. but the "correct" way...or the thumb being parallel way does not give me a calus when I play.
I'm not so sure my right hand is in the correct position though... supposedly your hand is supposed to form a "C" and I just dont feel like I'm doing that. Perhaps I am...
anyway, good luck!
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-02-23 03:02
I'm with Alex here...everyone has a differently-shaped hand...and my right thumbnail is more perpendicular with the walls of the bore. And yes, my thumbnail has a slight "deformation" from this... Just like my thumb has a callous where the thumbrest hits it. How many of us do not have a "clarinet wart" of any kind?
Katrina
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2005-02-23 06:42
Anyone taken the time to quietly ask Simon's son if he feels any pain or fatigue ? Nothing will put the position out more than the onset of pain.
we have,
1) weight of clarinet (wood versus plastic etc)
2) position of thumbrest for this lad specifically, some clarinets' thumbrests are not ideal for youngsters with small fingers
suggest :
1) provision of a rubber thumbrest cover to spread the load initially
and/or
2) as someone said a Ton Kooiman thumbrest.
and Katrina, I for one have no evidence of a callous or deformation of the right thumb. Before I got my Kooiman I used a rubber cover and this was helpful in distributing the weight away from one spot on the thumb.
BobT
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-23 12:31
You need to also know if the student's thumb is doublejointed.
That opens up a completely different hand position as they aren't limited by the joint.
Better than the Kooiman to me would be for him to get a neckstrap (BG or Neoteck) which will support the weight.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-23 13:38
"How many of us do not have a "clarinet wart" of any kind?"
![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) I don't! not to say I am right with my hand postion and everyone who has the nail pointing up is wrong, but I think that "the correct way" is to have it parallel. the callous hurts... glad that's over and done with. Now I just have to deal with "clarinet lip" ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-02-23 13:55
Thanks for proving me wrong guys! 
And David, I have a doublejointed right thumb. My students call it a "hitchhiker's thumb" because the top joint bends back so far. I am the first to admit that my thumb position is unorthodox and, according to many treatises, just plain wrong.
It's worked for me for 26 years though, and while I've modified it occasionally over the years, it still won't support the weight of the clarinet when it is straight...
Katrina
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Author: sonatina1234
Date: 2005-02-23 20:08
While we're on the topic of thumbs, how many people have also had problems with deQuervain's Syndrome (tendinitis of the wrist/thumb)? I was diagnosed when I was in 7th grade; I'm in 10th grade now and still having problems, even after physical therapy. Has anyone else had this problem, and do you have any suggestions on how to cope with it and treat it? I already use ice, heat, wear a brace, and use a neckstrap. Thanks :-)
-------------------------------------------------
Det. Lennie Briscoe: Maybe he's got some other life-long pursuits.
Lt. Anita Van Buren: Like what? You think he plays the clarinet?
Det. Lennie Briscoe: I *hope* he plays the clarinet.
~Law & Order
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-23 20:24
sonatina1234 wrote:
> While we're on the topic of thumbs, how many people have also
> had problems with deQuervain's Syndrome (tendinitis of the
> wrist/thumb)? I was diagnosed when I was in 7th grade; I'm in
> 10th grade now and still having problems, even after physical
> therapy. Has anyone else had this problem, and do you have any
> suggestions on how to cope with it and treat it? I already use
> ice, heat, wear a brace, and use a neckstrap. Thanks :-)
I don't have a solution, but a girl in my band plays second to last chair flute because she wasn't able to continue playing the clarinet, because of tendinitis (I bleieve it was in her wrist). She says she liked the clarinet much better, and thought she was better, but just couldn't play. I know that's certainly not a solution... I just hope you have a better outcome...
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-23 22:53
Flute isn't the answer as it is actually worse for DeQuervain's Syndrome than Clarinet.
I got deQuervain's Syndrome in 1989 - that's the primary reason why I teach much more than I play.
You are better off completely resting it for as long as you can.
Progress is measured in groups of months, not days with it.
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Author: Simon
Date: 2005-02-23 23:06
Thanks to all of you who have provided me with information. There was a few questions which i didn't address in my original question:
Plays on wooden clarinet
No he isn't double jointed
Yes I have bought him a neck strap and he seems more comfortable with that as the strap takes off the weight
Yes he has a good rubber thumb rest cover,
However sometime ago I inverted the thumb rest for my self as I thought it was to low as it was, so does anyone think that I should put the thumb rest back the way it was.
Any advise is most appreciated.
Simon
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-02-23 23:22
Ergonomically to me the thumb should be even with the index finger or slightly below, not quite below like almost all Clarinets have it set up for. That was Gigliotti's philosophy.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-02-24 00:12
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Ergonomically to me the thumb should be even with the index
> finger or slightly below, not quite below like almost all
> Clarinets have it set up for. That was Gigliotti's philosophy.
oh my! my thumb is a good inch down from my index finger; is that too far?!
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Author: Katelyn
Date: 2005-02-24 06:10
I've got a fairly decent sized 'clarinet wart'. I was told once that it was in the 'wrong place', that my right hand postition was wrong. My callous is just below (kinda on) my knuckle. I've also got problems with cracking my knuckles, and have noticed that my fingers are starting to curve a bit. (Like, sideways-outward) Is this going to be a problem? (other than that I'm probably going to have arthritis when I'm older) :P
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