 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-04 17:15
I realize that most wind ensemble music is in scales with few sharps/flats, but I've noticed that the violinists in my school tend to forget "naturals" while we (clarinetists) would most likely tend to forget "sharps" or "flats". This brings me to a few questions. What scales are considered "easier" for string instruments? I always thought the less sharps/flats, the easier. But apparently string instruments feel more comfortable with sharps/flats than they do with 'naturals'.
Also, assuming that this is because they were first taught scales with sharps/flats and that's why they were more comfortable with them, why don't people teach us with sharps and flats at the getgo? For instance, if my first scales taught to me were with four or more sharps/flats, then sure I'd be confused as hell with they showed me music in the key of C, but since there's MORE music for wind ensemble without an extravagant number of sharps/flats, I'd adjust quickly to it. All the while keeping those "tough" keys engrained in my head since they were the first I learned.
Alexi
(Boy did I have a tough time thinking of "subject" this topic should be called . . .)
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-11-04 17:25
Alexi -
Violin strings are tuned to G, D, A and E -- all keys with sharps. Likewise, violas and cellos tune to C, G, D, A, and basses tune to E, A, D, G.
Thus most string music is in C, G or D, and it's a truism that violinists are most comfortable in D, which is the key of many famous violin concertos.
That's why A clarinets were invented.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-04 17:38
That makes sense then. That way, those scales with the sharps will all contain an "open" string note (probably therefore making it easier and more likely taught first), and that those notes would more often be a tonic or dominant (based on the strings being a fifth apart?)
Am I interpreting this correctly?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-11-04 19:42
sfalexi wrote:
> That way, those scales with the sharps
> will all contain an "open" string note (probably therefore
> making it easier and more likely taught first),
In one sense, but not another. String players seldom use open strings, since their tone is significantly different that one where the finger is placed on the string.
At least on bass (which I'm familiar with) and I'm guessing the rest of the string family. It's even true on guitar, a fretted instrument ...
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Author: Tom A
Date: 2004-11-05 01:44
Nicolas Slonimsky, in the Lectionary Of Music, mentions at the beginning of the article on each key how popular it is as the principle key of well-known major works for orchestra. D Major is apparently popular for violin concertos as stated by Ken, but also because the tonic, dominant and subdominant can be found on open strings.
By contrast, he mentions F minor is not often used for the same reason. Only the supertonic and leading note can be open. Interesting that the dark opening of Tchaik. 4 is in this key. Choice of key is, of course, subject also to the pitch that the composer wants his music to be heard, but talk of string colour is still an interesting angle.
I assume that teaching fewer sharp/flat scales first is for facility, but some philosophies I read years ago suggested that all notes should be taught equally importantly at the very beginning. I follow this to some degree by teaching at least the fingerings of chromatic notes early, just so they're not so much of a mystery when the time comes to learn them.
And for those of us familiar with band method books, clarinetists have a lot to answer for. C Major for us means flats for other woodwinds, and seeing young flute and especially oboe players deal with their first tunes makes me feel guilty. Of course, like Alexi's violinists, they later have trouble playing in F Major, because the E flat fingering is so normal for them.
----------------------------------------------
Confucius say, "Why you always quote me in silly Chinese accent?"
Post Edited (2004-11-05 01:48)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-05 02:07
Never, and I mean ever teach a new student anything except natural notes (the middle Bb is the exception).
If you teach F# or low Bb early on (first 3 lessons) the student will confuse the hell out of them. Get the natural notes down and go from there so that they have a base to go on.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-11-05 04:24
My cousin taught himself piano. The first key he taught himself was the key of C. The next key he taught himself was the key of C#. He figured if he could figure out all the white keys, then all the black keys, the combinations of the two shouldn't be too hard. I don't really know what happened after that (seeing as he lives 2000 miles away and we weren't THAT close). Although now I'm very curious to see if this worked. It may be different though since I don't think he was teaching himself classically but rather more 'pop' piano.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-11-05 06:19
Necessity is the mother of invention, and different folks arrive different ways. To my grandmother (who played strictly by ear), the white keys of the piano were all a blur. She could only play well in the key of F#. This kept her using mostly the black keys and the only white keys she needed (B and F) were on either end of the group of 3 black keys.
I disagree with David about sticking with natural notes. On clarinet, that would not result in a complete scale without crossing the break. Low F and G scales are perfectly practical for the new beginners unless there are issues with sealing the tone holes. (I prefer low F, but sometimes smaller kids do better on G) There is no harm in learning a scale, and there are many advantages--such as the ability to play simple songs by ear while getting used to the instrument. I understand the problem that he mentions, but there are ways around it.
As for string keys, I'm not sure why orchestras favor sharp keys so much. Perhaps open strings were used more in the past than they are today. Also, an awful lot of European folk music has been in D. Certainly the guitar players and fiddle players in popular music enjoy the advantages of THEIR open strings.
Allen Cole
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-11-05 07:23
Strings often have different fingerings for enharmonic notes (e.g. Ab vs. G#) and fingerings can be very context-sensitive (this was painfully obvious the first time I wrote for strings), so learning either all sharps or all flats lets you play in more keys while learning less fingerings. My guess is that someone started writing pieces in sharp keys, which in turn resulted in more people learning them, after which more people wrote pieces, etc.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-11-05 12:24
If teaching a complete scale (you could always teach the c scale using low B and low c at the end) is the goal than the G scale would be the one.
The Bb and B natural are what confuse the heck out of students if the Bb is taught first.
F# isn't as much of a problem remembering what is the sharp fingering and what is the natural (but don't teach Bb ever before B natural or you are asking for mass confusion of those 2 notes).
Post Edited (2004-11-05 12:30)
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Author: Tom A
Date: 2004-11-05 22:26
Yes, I didn't mean quite that early. And I'm only talking about introducing the fingerings and use of the keys, almost as a curiosity. It just means that they have played using the chromatic fingerings once, which would hardly be more confusing than seeing the keys there while not having used them.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-11-07 21:52
If done properly, the B and B-flat thing is a non-issue. It depends on how quick a study the student is, how the student actually learns the scales, and in what framework those scales are used. I rarely have problems in this area but, of course, I'm using the methodology of the music store teacher. <g>
Allen Cole
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