 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinetstudent
Date: 2004-09-18 23:47
Hi I am thinking about majoring in music, and I was wondering what schools have excellent music programs or are known for their music programs?
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-18 23:54
A whole bunch of them, in a whole bunch of different areas.
1) What areas would you possibly like to go to?
2) Are you thinking performance? (clarinet?) Composition? Education? History? General music degree?
3) How much are you intending/willing to spend?
4) How long would you like to stay in college? How long COULD you stay?
5) Are you completely and irreversibly dedicated to music, or would you like to explore other subjects?
6) When would you be applying?
7) What is your musical background? How long have you played, and what kinds of music?
8) What size of college are you thinking of?
If you give specifics like these, we might be able to direct you to a few appropriate choices. Otherwise, try doing a search. Just throwing a bunch of names in your direction probably won't help much.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: clarinetstudent
Date: 2004-09-19 00:00
I'm a junior in high school this year. I am open to all over the country and am going to look at the cost later...right now I'm just looking. I'd like to graduate in 4 years if I could, but then again I don't really know how long it takes typically with a music degree. I do have many other interests besides music that I might want to pursue in. I've been playing piano since 2nd grade and clarinet since 6th grade; I've played classical and contemporary. I'm not sure what kind of music degree...that's one of my questions, I don't really know which one I should do or really what each one is exactly.
Thanks,
Natalie
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Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2004-09-19 00:15
I don't know much about other colleges, but I know that Miami University has a great music program. Right now I'm majoring in B.A. and education, and I'm probably going to add performance. MU is one of the top 25 colleges in the US.
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"You have to play just right to make dissonant music sound wrong in the right way"
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-19 01:10
It's perfectly possible to graduate in 4 years with a music degree, but you might find yourself rushed or overloaded, not taking full advantage of the opportunities. Personally, I'd plan for 5.
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A bit about the degrees, from my experience (semester-based)... offerings and requirements vary, of course:
A general music degree you can easily do in 4 years, a bit less if you're in a hurry. You'll have about 6 classes (or class-pairs) of theory, 5 of history, at least one performing group and lessons every semester, piano proficiency, and a senior project, in addition to about 20 G.E. classes (fills up almost two years on its own). Misc. other minor requirements as well. *Expect to audition on your instrument for any undergraduate degree.* The following are specializations beyond the general degree...
Performance: Add up to a year to the general degree. Includes longer lessons, conducting classes, chamber music performance, two courses on performance practices, and two recitals (one counts as your senior project).
History: Add a semester to a year to the general degree. Includes about a half dozen classes, research methods, proficiency in a foreign language. Private lessons only required for 2 years, as opposed to 4.
Composition: Add 2-3 semesters to the general degree. Includes composition lessons, workshop seminars, and a whole bunch of cool electives (I'm biased). Senior project is a composition recital in which your pieces are performed. Undergraduates can usually become comp majors just by expressing interest and auditioning on their instrument, graduates need a portfolio.
Education: Add about a year, plus credentials. Includes method classes for all instruments, conducting, rehearsal techniques, various other teaching-oriented classes.
ALSO: Every semester that you have lessons of any sort (instrument, composition, whatever), there is a jury at the end of the semseter in which you play (or bring a book containing, in case of comp) what you've been working on during the semester for a panel, which determines whether they will continue to pay for your lessons next semester, or if you will be put on probation.
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What they're for, as seen at my university (CSU Long Beach):
-A general "Music Degree" indicates that you've graduated with a good understanding of music. You might go into any field, but haven't specialized. It's also a "way out" for people who have bitten off more than they can chew with a specialty.
-A Performance degree focuses on performing your instrument, geared toward a professional gig, giving lessons, graduate performance study. Some universities even have a studio group, "real world experience" and all.
-A History degree is self-explanatory. The natural path is often to continue focused research in grad school, sometimes to become a music history teacher and complete the circle of life. A recent graduate focused on the development of the Contrabass Clarinet.
-A Composition degree is also pretty self-explanatory. You'll write a good bit of music. The very lucky and very talented might get writing gigs past graduation, but the path to grad school is more likely. Most theory teachers were comp majors, and still compose "concert" music along with teaching. Some comp majors become real-world commercial composers, for movies or video games and the like, but expect long hours. Possibly the most time-intensive degree, but I'm again biased in that opinion.
-An Education (aka "Instrumental Music") degree prepares you to be a music teacher, somewhere in the realm between elementary and high school. After you get your degree, you'll spend a year or so getting a teaching credential, doing student teaching, etc., before you're let out on your own.
For any major, but especially performance and composition, I recommend looking at who you might be studying with, as that can make as much of a difference as anything else, and at the quality of the performing groups.
Of course, it's always completely possible (and even likely) that you'll end up doing something completely different from what your degree suggests.
You can also double-major in two of the above specialties (add a semester to a year), double with another major (add 1-3 years), or minor in music or another subject (add 1-2 semesters for a minor, either way).
I'm doubling comp with an unrelated subject in 7 years, I know people doubling performance and ed in 5 with busy schedules.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-19 01:12
Also, I'd recommend looking for a university that has decent departments in your other interests, and take general courses in those departments early on. You might find something that fits you just right, for a major, minor, or whatever.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-09-19 02:05
EEBaum wrote:
> It's perfectly possible to graduate in 4 years with a music
> degree, but you might find yourself rushed or overloaded, not
> taking full advantage of the opportunities. Personally, I'd
> plan for 5.
A performance degree in 4 years is no big thing ...
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-19 02:13
"A performance degree in 4 years is no big thing"
True. I even know someone who's doubling performance and English (writing) and just got her grad check for 4 years, but then she's taking about 21 units a semester (over 18 needs a few signatures of high-ups). More often than not, I see people extend it by a semester or two though. If it happens in 4, great, but I've known of people who enter college with a "4 or bust!" attitude, then end up missing out on a lot in order to keep on schedule.
edit: removed a "lots of", which was a bit of an exaggeration
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
Post Edited (2004-09-19 02:14)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-09-19 02:31
It's interesting the way higher education has become a longer process than it was when I entered college in the fall of '86. All of us at Oberlin expected to graduate in 4 years, except those entering the "double degree program" (BMus and BA) who had a 5-year plan.
Now it's a lot more fluid.
And I think that this extended to other schools than Oberlin too...I remember thinking, "Well, Kent State would be cheaper for 4 years than Oberlin for 1-2 but I really gotta go to a Conservatory."
Katrina
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Author: Robyn
Date: 2004-09-19 06:43
I think it all depends on the school. Everyone at my state university finishes performance degrees in 4 years easily, unless they have failed courses.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-09-19 07:18
...and those failed courses often include piano skills. If planning to major in music and you are confident that you'll audition well, it might be well do devote some effort to learning the piano if you don't play it already.
Allen Cole
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Author: Tara
Date: 2004-09-19 20:23
I earned my music education degree in 3 years. 145 credit hours. But, I will admit that most everyone else I knew spent 5 or 6!
Best wishes,
Tara
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Author: clarinetstudent
Date: 2004-09-20 00:31
Thankyou everyone, however I was still wondering what are some good music schools in Texas?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-09-20 00:37
clarinetstudent wrote:
> Thankyou everyone, however I was still wondering what are some
> good music schools in Texas?
Rice & UNT come to mind immediately.
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Author: pgh3
Date: 2004-09-20 00:56
I think that the University of North Texas would be a top choice as far as a strong program. They are one of the top in concert (Corporon) and jazz (One'oclock band) just for starters. They are one of the top in the nation. I do not know their clarinet teacher, but I know some clarinet players that have come out of North Texas and they are very good at what they do.
Still, knowing the reputation of Texas and music, I would think any top college in the state would have a good program.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-20 01:36
UNT has an excellent wind program, from what I've heard (both word of mouth and recordings). Along with Eastman and a couple others, its wind ensemble is one of the benchmarks in the U.S. (This might be slightly biased coming from me, as Corporon went to Cal State U Long Beach, where I'm currently a student).
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-09-20 01:55
Though I did not start this topic, something of interest to me came up - universities in Texas. Does anyone have any thoughts/knowledge on West Texas A&M? I'm thinking of pursuing a double-major there in Computer Science and Music Performance. Also curious - is it foolish to major in a subject not for potential job opportunities, but just because you enjoy it? In my case, the plan is/was to major in Computer Science for the job, and Music Performance just because I enjoy it, not because I have any plans on pursuing music as a career.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-20 03:01
Welcome to the magical club, Bob! (though my second major is composition instead of performance)
First of all, do you REALLY like computer science, or are you just doing it because you hear it's a good job? The market has waned a bit recently, and people who aren't genuinely into the subject might have a harder time at it.
Personally, I don't think it's foolish at all to major in a subject just because you like it. That's why I have both of my majors. If you can manage to do it (afford it, and mentally handle the extra time in school), I'd greatly encourage doubling.
Potential quantifiable benefits to doing music in addition to C.S. (things you can make a list of, aside from the unexpected and more subtle)
- Help to keep sane after a particularly intense coding session
- Think about problems in unusual ways
- Possibly better sense of the fluid interaction of components
- Makes good conversation with co-workers and interviewers
- Hopefully, it helps you in being more than a code monkey
- Considerable knowledge and experience in many things musical (things like this really do come up)
- Better understanding of sound concepts, should you go into sound- or music-related work.
- Electronic music is still alive and well
- Always the possibility of doing well, at some level (even a monthly gig) in the music world... something to strive for.
Just know that you're looking at about 6 years to graduate. Had I been dual-majoring from the start, I'd probably have been intimidated. Rather, I started with a music minor and upgraded down the line to a grand total of 7 years, starting my sixth now.
I once heard someone say that there are two types of people in college... people who go there for a job, and people who go for personal enrichment and learning. Ideally, a student will leave the university with both.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-09-20 04:53
I do enjoy Computer Science quite a bit, and have since I was 10 having just learned HTML, and believing myself to be a master programmer. My particular interest is in programming video games (I just ordered a few books off of Amazon about that subject, actually), but I have little experience in that area. But if computer science in general is a declining field, the video game industry seems to be a growing one.
XD I like the "keeping you sane after a coding session" one. Of course, in the event that that sanity breaks, Clarinets make decent beating rods as well (big Clarinets work better).
Out of curiosity, is 6 years the "I'm rushing and getting this done as fast as I can" time, or the average time?
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-09-20 05:30
6 years is full load. Not incredibly rushed, but also leaving little time to goof off. As fast as you can, you might shave off a semester or two, also depending on if you'll do summer classes. Heck, I might have been able to do c.s. and comp in 6 if it weren't for clubs, student government, and an internship (the type of extra-curricular activities that i partially include in all my estimates, because I find them necessary and worthwhile)
Having just completed a 3-year internship at a game company, my observations: The video game industry has, unfortunately, become more of an "industry" in the past 5 years. Small developers are going under or being bought up. There's a lot of consolidation among large companies. Unfortunately, this means a lot of stagnation... games are mostly sequels and rehashes, because they're a "safe bet." For the most part, the "wild west" days of games are past, and it's all about churning out a focus-grouped product now. There's still the occasional diamond in the rough, though. Also, on the music end, things are on the upswing, and grander scores are good for composers.
Hours are long and the pay isn't the best, but the work atmosphere usually at least partially makes up for it. Take the game programming books with a grain of salt. Some are quite good (the Gems series comes to mind), but others will likely end up just sitting on your shelf.
Game programming isn't for everyone, but if you can get your foot in the door, and if it suits you, it can be quite fun. The saturation of pointy-haired-bosses is somewhat thinner, anyways. For me, only time will tell whether I go back... for now, I'm putting all my time into finishing my degree(s).
If this thread is getting a bit too off-topic, feel free to send me an email or instant message.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-20 12:25
A performance degree in 4 years is nothing.
Get your Masters before even thinking about going out in the world to get a playing job.
Also begin working hard on your Diction - start with practice like "would you like Fries with that?"
Progress from there 
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-09-20 12:34
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Get your Masters before even thinking about going out in the
> world to get a playing job.
There's a lot of disagreement with that sentiment; there's a large proportion of top-flight professional performers who did not get higher degrees before getting their 1st playing job.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-20 12:39
And there's a infinitely larger proportion of unemployed undergrad degree auditionees.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-20 12:42
---------------------------------------------
Igloo Bob (---.gci.net)
Date: 2004-09-20 01:55
Though I did not start this topic, something of interest to me came up - universities in Texas. Does anyone have any thoughts/knowledge on West Texas A&M? I'm thinking of pursuing a double-major there in Computer Science and Music Performance. Also curious - is it foolish to major in a subject not for potential job opportunities, but just because you enjoy it? In my case, the plan is/was to major in Computer Science for the job, and Music Performance just because I enjoy it, not because I have any plans on pursuing music as a career.
---------------------------------------------------
What about a minor in music? It isn't foolish to get a degree in something that you love if you can afford it and still work on something that will employ you for the long term.
That's awesome if you can do that!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-09-20 12:48
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> And there's a infinitely larger proportion of unemployed
> undergrad degree auditionees.
Of course. The pool is larger with the average talent lower.
A few undergrads are employable. Some proportion of the unemployable go on to grad school, where most still end up unemployed. A very few end up at the point where they're employable. The grad school was more of a "finishing school". For significantly less money and probably less time they could have worked with a teacher for that "finishing" if all they wanted was to perform.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-20 12:55
Yes, if they are going to make it and get an Orchestral Job than probably right out of undergrad with continuing lessons they will get a job.
However the undergrad degree in music performance is as useful as a roll of Scott paper in the job world beyond an Orchestra.
Makes ya wonder why it is called a "B.M." degree .........
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-09-20 13:05
And even when they are "employable" it is still an infinite numbers game. That's one of the major problems is that players who are monsters still get hit with the numbers game and most loose it.
Here's an example of 2 friends of mine:
Both were at the very top of the McDonalds All-American Band (Principal and 2nd Chair). The one who was 2nd chair was also Principal Clarinet All Virginia Band for 3 years and as a freshman got upper 2nd Clarinet Section.
He graduated with a degree in performance (BM) and for 10 years delivered Pizza for Dominoes (daytime no less!!!). Fortunately he finally got a job in the Naval Academy Band 10 years after graduating college.
Other guy played in the Presidents Marine Band as a soloist and now sells Real Estate (left the Marine Band after about 6 years and doesn't play at all anymore) - he was a performance major and had aspired to play in an Orchestra full time.
Other times it can be a case of the jobs out there not being worth getting - someone who is starting a family usually can't be taking a gig paying under $20K for only a 1 year position.
There are some who will get jobs in Performance, but the "cranking out as many Performance Majors as the School needs the income" is to me criminal.
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