 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-08-23 01:01
I've just read through a lot of past threads about double vs. single embouchure. Most of them seem to focus on whether someone should learn double embouchure in order to correct an embouchure problem. I've always used double embouchure. It feels very natural to me, and I honestly didn't realize that what I was doing wasn't "normal". I've tried playing single embouchure, just to see if I could do it, and it just doesn't feel comfortable at all for me. I know I could learn it, if I worked at it. I'm just wondering if there is a reason I should learn single embouchure at this point? Would it have any benefits?
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2004-08-23 01:39
If you're happy with the embouchure you have, why switch? An embouchure is a very personal thing, and if one is satisfied with a single-lip or a double-lip embouchure it makes no sense (to me) to bother switching just for the sake of switching.
Now, if you see a tangible benefit from doing so, then it's up to you to decide whether to commit ... and it is a commitment best not taken lightly, IMHO. I made the switch to double-lip over 20 years ago at the encouragement of my college studio professor (chronicled elsewhere on this board) , and it took me months of really hard work to succeed.
Good luck with your decision.
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There are only 10 kinds of people in the world:
Those who understand binary math, and those who don't.
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-08-23 01:42
Wicked Good -
I read your story when I did my search. I guess what it comes down to is though I see lots of information on the benefits of using the double embouchure (at least some of the time) I haven't read as much about the benefits of single (other than that most people use it). On a side note, I cracked up when I read your signature - thanks for the laugh.
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2004-08-23 03:01
Slithy Toves, of "Twas brillig, and the slithy toves did gire and gimble in the wabe" fame? I memorized that one on a dare.
Back to double-lipping - Why would you want to switch? If it works for you, stay with it. It's just hard for those of us who don't use it regularly.
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-08-23 03:04
(Wicked - hope you don't mind me jumping in to answer this)
Bellflare - No. 10 in binary translates to 2 in decimal math. But 01 in binary translates to 1 in decimal.
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-08-23 03:12
Brenda - yes, that's the one. I've always been a huge fan of Lewis Caroll, so when I was looking for a username a few years ago, this seemed like a good way to incorporate that!
As far as why I would want to switch - I really don't - but if there is something to be gained by being able to use both, then I'm willing to try to learn.
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Author: John_May
Date: 2004-08-23 05:59
There has been much reference to Jabberwocky here... I remember someone's signature making reference to the momeraths and their surprising decision to outgrabe.
As for this discussion, I'm going to have to agree that you should do what works for you and try not to complicate the issue unless it's absolutely necessary.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-08-23 13:37
Slithy...my experience was much the same as yours and I'm probably much much older. I was taught double lip and the instructor never even hinted that single lip was an option. Some years later I noticed someone else's mouthpiece with the teeth marks and tried single lip and unlike the Beach Boys didn't get good vibrations. Yes, I also suggest you stick with what you got....I believe it gives one more control and maybe even yields a stronger embochure....
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2004-08-23 13:54
Playing w/double lip and standing is not usually an option. That to me would be the only down side of the double lip.
There would be no reason at all to change if you are comfortable w/double lip.
I play and teach single lip with the upper lip used similar to double lip but with the flexibility of standing that single lip affords. A Clarinetist soloing in front of an Orchestra would look pretty unusual sitting down for it.
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2004-08-23 16:48
As in most cases concerning double lip embouchure and its use, there are options, good and bad - proper and improper; these options and their viability vary for each of us.
Playing with double lip and standing should not be a problem if done correctly.
I use double lip embouchure. Most of my performing is standing; usually 1 to 2 hours for solo concerts.
Even when I am sitting for performances or practicing, I don't balance the clarinet on or between my knees (unless it is a really long rehearsal, then I might use the knee as temporary support).
Richard Stolzman (double lip player) stands for most of his concert work.
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Playing w/double lip and standing is not usually an option.
> That to me would be the only down side of the double lip.
>
>
> There would be no reason at all to change if you are
> comfortable w/double lip.
>
> I play and teach single lip with the upper lip used similar to
> double lip but with the flexibility of standing that single lip
> affords. A Clarinetist soloing in front of an Orchestra would
> look pretty unusual sitting down for it.
>
Tom Piercy
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-08-23 16:59
I don't even begin to understand the point about standing. What has that to do with it?
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2004-08-23 17:25
"point about standing":
- some people that use double lip embouchure balance, or hold, their clarinet on their knee, or between their knees, while playing.
As you can imagine, holding the clarinet between your knees while standing would cause a bit of a problem - and look odd, too. 
Tom Piercy
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2004-08-23 17:54
I started on double...like you I didn't realise it was different.
However, I have switched and thank god I did. There is lots to be said for the beauty of sound that can be achieved on double...but the instrument is not as securely anchored, making tongueing harder because you're trying to hit a moving target.
This also has fallout towards finger technique etc. you need your instrument secure.
When you consider that a beautiful sound can be made on single lip...I don't see any reason not to change, apart from the effort it takes to change.
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Author: Tom J.
Date: 2004-08-23 17:54
Tom Piercy wrote:
"Richard Stolzman (double lip player) stands for most of his concert work."
The question is : Should we stand for most of his concert work ?
Hey, I'm sticking with single-lip.
Post Edited (2004-08-23 23:49)
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2004-08-23 21:12
If a particular person playing with double-lip needs additional support of his/her instrument, why not a neck strap, which should work standing or sitting?
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Author: William
Date: 2004-08-25 14:57
If you are comfortable with DL, then don't change. I, for one SL'er, am jealous and would make the switch to full time DL if it wasn't so difficult. A more resonate sound and greater tuning flexabilty for adjusting with "those" notes and some of "those" other (inflexable) players are two good reasons for playing with DL. I do advocate for all SL players to also experiment with DL simply to involve more of the upper lip in their conventional embouchure. Too many rely solely on the lower lip "bite" for reed support and just use the upper lip to keep the air from excaping. It is always advantagious to get more support from the upper lip, and that is why the DL embouchure is really the preferred method among serious clarinetists.
I once asked Larry Combs if he played with a double lip embouchure because I thought that he "sounded like it". He said, "No, but thanks for the compliment (on sounding like he did)".
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-08-25 17:33
I searched and couldn't really find a good explanation of double lip. Does it mean the upper teeth don't touch the mouthpiece, and the upper lip covers them, like on the lower lip? If that is the case, I tried it and it hurts my upper lip pretty bad.
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2004-08-25 17:56
Correct - In double lip, the upper teeth do not touch the mouthpiece.
The upper teeth are covered by the upper lip in the similar fashion as the lower teeth covered by the lower lip. The lips cover the teeth, and then wrap around the mouthpiece in an "OO" configuration.
The most noticeable improvements I found when I play double lip:
more control over the types of tone colors I want;
different types and speeds of articulations are easier;
large leaps -- up/down - back and forth -- MUCH easier to negotiate.
It may take a while to build up the different muscles for double lip, but after that time, it is easy to switch back to single lip if needed. The "pain" that some write of was minimal for me and lasted for only a short time until the proper muscles were developed and I learned how to correctly use them.
If you are correctly playing double lip for a while, the hurt you mentioned should not be an issue. I practice/play many hours a day (mostly solo, chamber) and rarely have sore lips. It does take delicate hand and finger motion, but that is a good thing.
Some things to check for that could be causing pain: thin cutting edges on your upper teeth; biting too hard; holding clarinet too tight and tense with hands which causes too much movement of the clarinet and therefore the mouthpiece inside your mouth; using too much jaw/teeth pressure and not enough full lip pressure.
Tom Piercy
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-08-25 18:36
It didn't take a while until the lip started hurting because it wasn't pain in the muscle. After just a few seconds of doing it my lip was hurt from my upper teeth. I could barely play at all really, not to mention making a good sound. I will stick with single lip, works good for me, and I can do everything I want with it so why change.
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Author: Slithy Toves
Date: 2004-08-26 00:18
Thanks, everyone, for your comments.
I've been experimenting a bit with single lip since I posted, and I think that (for the time being, anyway) I'm just going to stick with what has worked until now. I've never had a problem playing standing up, and I actually find that when my teeth are touching the mouthpiece, the instrument is more unstable, making tonguing more difficult. Perhaps simply because I'm just so used to double lip. I haven't ruled out single lip entirely, but thanks to this discussion, I at least know what the possible advantages to single lip might be, in case I run into those issues in the future!
Thanks again!
Sharon
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