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 Help deciding
Author: RoseG 
Date:   2004-08-19 15:33

Hi,
My daughter is getting a new student clarinet. (We are giving her old one (after it has a tune up) to her sister who is starting this fall (a Jupiter 631N)
My older daughter has been playing for 3 years. She is trying to decide between a Buffet B12 & a Yamaha YCL250. Any feed back would be appreciated as to general quality, sound, maintaince etc... I personally thought the Buffet sounded better but she also liked the Yamaha. There is only a $20 difference between the two.
Thanks,
Rose



Post Edited (2004-08-19 17:56)

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 Re: Help deciding
Author: msloss 
Date:   2004-08-19 17:43

Rose -- prepare for an onslaught of opinions as to which is better. As an instructor who frequently gets students in the age/skill range you describe, I'll tell you either would be a fine choice. There isn't a lot of choosing between the major brands at the skill level your daughter is at -- they are all very competent instruments. The nuances of each design would only matter to those that have moved considerably beyond that level instrument. It is far more important and impactful on her playing that she have a decent mouthpiece, ligature and reeds, and that whatever you decide to buy is kept in good adjustment.

Good luck to both your girls!

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 Re: Help deciding
Author: RoseG 
Date:   2004-08-19 17:53

Thanks for your help
Rose

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 Re: Help deciding
Author: Synonymous Botch 
Date:   2004-08-19 20:15

For $125 you could buy a nice wooden clarinet for your advancing kid...
<www.yankelswarehouse.com>

I got one of these Czech clarinets, and it plays very well for the money.

If you're not considering wooden clarinets, also look to the Ridenour TR147.
Brooks Mays sells them.

The Buffet B12 is made in China, by the way.

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 Re: Help deciding
Author: hans 
Date:   2004-08-19 23:13

Rose,
I think Mark Sloss has answered your question above.
Re: "I personally thought the Buffet sounded better but she also liked the Yamaha.".... I'm just curious - were both play-tested with the same mouthpiece and reed?
Regards,
Hans

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 Re: Help deciding
Author: Sheila-music_lover 
Date:   2004-08-20 02:57

Ok, it may be a $125 wood clarinet, but it is better to get a good plastic one rather than a cheap woodent one. I had to choose between those two as well and I chose the B-12, b/c an experienced clarinetist we know said it was better, and I thought it sounded better. Anyway, I don't think that B-12s are made in china, Mine is made in Germany, maybe some are, who knows...? That is my opinion on the subject.
Sheila



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 Re: Help deciding
Author: RoseG 
Date:   2004-08-20 16:02

Yes they were played with the same mouth piece & reed
Rose

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 Re: Help deciding
Author: John_May 
Date:   2004-08-20 16:13

Well, I personally suggest you get an E11... the resale should be fairly high when she wants to move up later, if the instrument is well maintained. So you don't lose very much money. Of the two, though, I personally prefer yamaha YCL clarinets to any non-wood student models I've played.

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 Re: Help deciding
Author: RoseG 
Date:   2004-08-21 13:58

Isn't the E11 wood?
We would like to stay with a plastic because she will be in a marching band & I have been told that the wood are very sensitive to moisture etc.. In the future if she would like to get a wood for playing ONLY indoors we will deal with it at that point.
Thanks again to all who have responded you have been a great help.
Rose

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 Re: Help deciding
Author: allencole 
Date:   2004-08-21 14:29

Yes, you're right. The E11 is wood. One possible money-saving suggestion.
Since marching band is the primary concern in getting a plastic clarinet, you might save money by getting a used one. Many music stores sell previously-rented instruments that are in perfectly good condition, but a prices considerably lower than a new horn. Where I work, those horns pass through the repair shop before restocking and are often in better adjustment than new horns from the factory.

There should be plenty of Buffet B12's (I would avoid the B10) and Yamaha YCL-23's available on this basis. You can use the savings to start a fund for an upgrade instrument later on.

FOR THE GROUP: I thought the B12 was made in Germany. Isn't it the B10 that's made in China?

Allen Cole

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 Re: Help deciding
Author: DavidBlumberg 
Date:   2004-08-22 01:35

The E-11 is wooden but they almost never ever crack. They are placed in an oil treatment which prevents cracking that the upper end clarinets are not.


But there is a really, really great plastic clarinet that the Doctor sells which you should absolutely consider trying - you will be impressed.

http://www.forteclarinet.com/ is their site.

Also be sure to see http://www.forteclarinet.com/products/instrument.htm which describes why this is the best plastic clarinet on the market.

I tried it at Clarfest and was blown away by it. It's a great clarinet for outside playing (check out the Moennig barrel bore).



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 Re: Help deciding
Author: GBK 
Date:   2004-08-22 02:50

DavidBlumberg wrote:


> But there is a really, really great plastic clarinet that the
> Doctor sells which you should absolutely consider trying - you
> will be impressed.
>
> http://www.forteclarinet.com/ is their site.



I was asked to be one of the original testers during the devolopment of the Forte clarinet. My comments are found here:

http://www.forteclarinet.com/comments/kantor.htm

It is most definitely a clarinet worth considering ...GBK



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 Re: Help deciding
Author: Brenda 
Date:   2004-08-22 03:12

According to the Buffet brochure I received with my new R-13, the E-11 is pitched at A442. But is that only because of the shorter barrel supplied with it, and would that be resolved by using a 65-66 mm barrel?



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 Re: Help deciding
Author: jArius 
Date:   2004-08-22 08:20

In my opinion , your daughter should go with whichever seems the best to her, regardless of brand name. She should pick the one that sounds the best to her, and also feels the best (in a tactile sense) and is the easiest to play. It seems to me that those three things are more important than a brand name. After all, no two musicians are the same, especially with clarinetists, and she should go with the instrument that seems right for her.

Jeremy Bruins

Proud member of the too-much-time-on-my-hands club.

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 Re: Help deciding
Author: Jack Kissinger 
Date:   2004-08-22 13:15

First of all, to answer your specific question, I am inclined to agree with msloss though I find myself leaning toward the Yamaha for a few reasons. First, in my experience, unless the Buffets have improved greatly quite recently, Yamaha stock mouthpieces are considerably better. This may not be an issue if your older daughter already has a better mouthpiece. Second, according to the Yamaha website, the 250 comes with Valentino pads. These pads are synthetic and, in addition to sealing well, should last a long time (when Valentino was still selling them directly, he gave a lifetime guarantee) and are waterproof. That means you shouldn't have to replace them if your daughter has to march in the rain and they get wet. Buffet's website mentions that the B10 has Valentino pads but says nothing about the B12. It used to have bladder pads. If it still does, I would downrate it as a marching band instrument. One good soaking can cost you $100 or more depending on repair prices in your area. Check with the store where you tried out the instruments. A third reason I might prefer the Yamaha is that the Buffets are now being made with silver plated PLASTIC body rings. Other than cosmetic, I can't see what function they serve and, it seems to me, they would be prone to break. The Yamaha website does not say anything about the 250's body rings so perhaps they too are plastic. If they are metal, however, I would regard them as more sturdy. The function of body rings is perhaps less important for a plastic clarinet than it would be for a wooden one, but even so, if I had to have rings, I would rather they be metal. Again, check with the dealer.

One final consideration is that the B12 (like the E11) is pitched slightly sharp (A = 442 rather than 440). Buffet apparently considers their primary market for this instrument to be absolute beginners. Because children have a tendency to play flat when they first start out (and until their embouchure develops), pitching the instrument a little higher is an ad hoc adjustment that makes it easier for them to play in tune with other instruments in the band early on. By now, your daughter is probably past that stage. In a world of trumpets, being pitched a little sharp is not necessarily a bad thing [rotate]. If your daughter will use the instrument for district and state competitions, however, she might find a standard pitched instrument easier to play in tune with her accompanist. I don't know where the Yamaha is pitched. Perhaps, however, it would be worth returning to the store where you tried the instruments and try them both with a tuner. If everything else is equal, the easier one to play in tune is probably the better choice.

FYI, a quick check at the Woodwind and Brasswind tells me that mail order price for these two instruments is around $450. I hope your store is in the ballpark. In your case, at this point, time may be more important than money. (Our daughter's school has already started.) If not, and you don't mind dealing with the shipping and possible returns, the Forte and Ridenour instruments mentioned above might be worth a look. I haven't seen either so I can't honestly say if they are worth the trouble. Another option, however, that I just discovered is that Woodwind and Brasswind is closing out some Leblanc V40's. Until they are sold out, they are selling for $425 new. Leblanc considers them a plastic intermediate clarinet and I think they are a clear step up from the B12. I used to use a B12 with Valentino pads that I installed as my bad weather horn. I have replaced it with a V40 that I picked up on eBay. If you search the board archives on V40, you will find other positive comments on this model.

Best of luck to you and your daughters.

jnk



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 Re: Help deciding
Author: DavidBlumberg 
Date:   2004-08-22 15:22

The B-10 comes with the Valentino pads, but I find that they stick way too much.

I prefer the B-12 if you're stuck getting a plastic clarinet.

The E-12 is much, much better than the E-11 - better wood!



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 Re: Help deciding
Author: Jack Kissinger 
Date:   2004-08-22 20:35

RoseG

I admit there is disagreement over the relative merits of Valentino pads. Rather than entering into a lengthy debate with David over this issue, let me suggest that: (a) you search the archives for this bulletin board on "Valentino" without the quotes and read what others (including players and repair techs) have posted in fairly extensive past discussion and (2) let your daughter try the Yamaha again, specifically looking for keys that seem to stick. The only thing I will add is that it seems unlikely to me that two major manufacturers would have adopted these pads for clarinets that are probably their biggest sellers if their testing disclosed a serious problem.

Best regards,
jnk

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 Re: Help deciding
Author: DavidBlumberg 
Date:   2004-08-22 23:04

All I know from it is my experience with young students who have them. I have 3 who play the B-10 and all 3 have pads that stick way too often.

I'm picky about having them brush their teeth/rinse their mouth before playing and the pads don't appear to have any dirt on them.


I had them get that clarinet FOR the pads as I felt that they would last many, many x longer than the standard pads.

Maybe for whatever reason Yamaha's don't stick - no idea on that one and I'm not one to poo poo the Valentino like some other Clarinetists would (Valentino himself told me that there are lots of players who won't even look at them as they are predisposed against them - I'm not one of them)



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