 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-07-26 20:10
I had the opportunity to look over Tom Ridenour's new 'budget-priced' low-C bass clarinet at ClarinetFest a couple of days ago, and thought I'd pass along my impressions and dispel some of the misinformation that's been spread about the instrument. Unfortunately a finger injury (which will be all healed soon) prevented me from giving the horn a proper play-test, but nonetheless I honked a few notes on it, and was honored to have been able to talk to Tom himself for a few minutes about the philosophy, design, features, and manufacturing of the instrument (thanks also to his colleague Ted Lane who helped out). First, the objective information:
This is a true automatic double-register-vent design (in which a lower vent opens for clarion low-B through Eb, then a second, higher vent opens for the remainder of the clarion register). It has a hard-rubber, two-piece body and nickel-plated keywork. The design is completely new; it is not a reworked Bundy or anything else. Tom told me it is based somewhat on the French Selmer bass, but the keywork is considerably simpler and more basic --- this is a "no-frills" instrument, but the important 'stuff' is there. It has a non-adjustable basic hook thumb support, and three smallish spatulas for the extended low notes without alternate fingerings for those notes (I found that in sliding my right thumb down from the thumbhook onto the spatulas, I encountered some sharp edges and corners, so I suggested to Tom that he consider extending and rounding the spatulas and perhaps add an additional roller or two -- he seemed to accept that minor criticism gracefully!). The instrument is manufactured in Asia to Tom's design and under his direct quality control supervision. The selling price should be around $2400-2500 US, and I don't know when they'll be available in quantity (I forgot to ask).
From a very short test-honk, I would say that the tone, intonation, and response of the instrument are excellent in all registers. This is the real deal! Although professional players would probably find the Ridnenour bass somewhat lacking in features, as far as playing qualities are concerned I found it to be beyond reproach in my brief trial. It should definitely be on every bass clarinetist's list to try, perhaps as a backup horn for the professional players and as an "only" bass for the rest of us. Mr. Ridenour was (as you'd expect of one of the world's top clarinet designers) exceptionally knowledgeable of practical acoustics and the traditional problems of most bass clarinets, and it seems to me he has successfully addressed these concerns with his new bass clarinet.
I might just start saving my money up for this puppy!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-07-26 21:42
TKS, Dave - I inquired about the low C via Larson Music in OKC [a Brook-Mays]. They have/had? a couple of bass Eb Rid's, with which I was quite pleased on putting one thru its paces. They [L] had no response [yet] , a busy Tom etc, no doubt ! Will see what transpires. Yes. "cpoak" is a very knowledgable good friend, and an up-and-coming dealer in our NEW [like the Forte] clarinets. Glad to see our "new and different". Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-07-27 00:08
Now that I've seen someone try one out, I can start thinking about getting one. The music stores around here are more geared toward the guitar-playing crowd and do not have much knowledge of woodwinds. Although it is funny to hear them ask what a contrabass clarinet is when I need reeds.
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Author: glin
Date: 2004-07-27 02:03
I spent a short time talking to Tom at ClarinetFest. He told me that he has a very good bass clarinetist player and technician on his staff that helped test out the low C clarinet. The technician said that on a comparison test with the low C Selmer. it sounded better and at a price that is within budget. I'm saving $ for it as well. I think you order directly through him at Ridenour Clarinet Products.
I purchased some music (Scarlatti) for clarinet quartet from him. Did anyone ot there try his new barrels or student clarinets?
George Lin
Fairfax, VA
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Author: JamesE
Date: 2004-07-27 17:50
Dave,
Thanks for the input. I've been hoping someone with your background would be checking out the low C.
Jim
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2004-07-28 05:47
David-- was the Low C Bass Tom's prototype or from the first production run? I played the prototype in April, and am waiting for the "real thing" to arrive......
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-07-29 14:19
Correct, BobD, I recognised my mistake, should have re-posted. M W is a CPA in Ok, [city], very knowledgable and friendly. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: susieray
Date: 2004-07-29 14:24
>>>is it maybe "cpaok".........?
yeah cuz he's a cpa and lives in Oklahoma.
anyway, I have one of Tom Ridenour's soprano C clarinets.
I bought it directly from Tom last fall and it is GREAT. I talked
to Tom at Fest and he told me quite a lot about his hard rubber
clarinets in general. One of the points he made was that the
bore does not change over time like the bore of a wooden
clarinet. I guess I hadn't even really though of that
but it makes sense.
I have not tried any of his other horns but I am very pleased with
the one I have and would not hesitate to recommend it!
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Author: Rev. Avery
Date: 2004-07-29 18:49
Hi,
So nice to hear the good comments about Tom's clarinet! :-) As you might remember, I am a big supporter of his clarinet. I love mine! It's a great clarinet and I highly recommend all of Tom's products.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-07-29 20:32
Dave--did you happen to notice if the Ridenour bass has the alternate left hand Eb/Ab key?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-07-29 20:59
RS,
I'm embarrassed to admit I did not notice, as it's a feature I have very little use for (I know you really like it, however!), and my time at the Ridenour booth was very limited. I'd advise contacting Tom directly.
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-07-30 14:48
Two things
1. The extra A flat key strikes me as being almost pointless as long as there is an alternative low E flat key (usually on the rh thumb). Does this instrument have that key amongst its thumb keys?
2. The advertising blurb was very interesting in the unambiguous way it linked the density properties of Ridenite to the tone colour produced. Lighter materials, it said, produced a thin tone. If it is scientifically demonstrable that any material of a reasonable level of rigidity is as good from a tonal point of view as any other, isn't it strange that a leading innovative designer is so keen to sell this "aspect". Can we deduce that he definitely disagrees with the general consensus on this point?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-07-30 14:54
Ken Shaw,
The Brook Mays photo you linked shows the low-Eb bass clarinet, not the new low-C. But nonetheless I don't recall seeing the alternate Ab/Eb left-hand lever on the low-C bass I tried at C-Fest.
graham,
As I stated in my first posting, the new low-C model does not have any alternate levers for the bottom three notes -- just the three spatulas for the right thumb.
As for the issue of the material's effect on tone, Mr. Ridenour and I may disagree on that issue, which has been discussed to death previously on this BB and will probably always remain controversial. My main concern is with results --- and it appears that, for whatever reason(s), the new Ridenour bass clarinet plays quite well.
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2004-07-30 15:01
During my recent visit with Tom, he informed me that the material you see in Brook May's catalogs and advertising is written not by him, but by BM's marketing staff. He takes their stuff with with a mild shaking of the head......
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-07-30 15:14
Ah Yes, advertising for marketing, well-known for at least some "over-statement". The Low Eb Rid, I played for about a half-hour, did NOT have an alternate Ab/Eb [my pref. descript] left L F lever. Being a "Full Boehm" lover, my first look is for extra keys ! I do want to see [at least] the C. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-07-30 15:58
Yes Dave, of course. But I was enquiring about the E flat, which is not one of the bottom three notes.
A mild shaking of the head is not really good enough in this sort of context. In the UK there are laws against deliberately misleading advertising.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-07-30 16:03
graham wrote:
> the UK there are laws against deliberately
> misleading advertising.
There are in the USA, also ... but in this case that statement can easily be argued either way. Advertising may be (is) hyperbole.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-07-30 16:41
Reading Dave's report I gather that the low C bass has the low Eb lever in the usual full Boehm position (next to the B/E lever). And low D, Db, and C are on the back of the horn below the thumbrest and are all operated by the right thumb. This sounds like the system Steven Fox uses for his low C extensions and would seem to be a workable system. But if the horn is not equipped with the left hand Eb/Ab key then there is no way to play (by slurring) up a fourth from low Eb. To me this would be like a piano that's missing one of the black keys. A major design flaw.
Post Edited (2004-07-30 18:31)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-07-30 17:11
I agree with Robert's description of the mechanism, but not with his assessment of the severity of the 'design flaw' (perhaps because I play virtually no solo repertoire for bass clarinet and have simply never encountered slurs from low-Eb up a fourth, in the band and orchestra repertoire I've performed!).
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-07-30 17:28
I think I have encountered Eb-Ab (or Ab-Eb) in written music on occasion but definitely not very often. Where I use these particular note sequences the most is when improvising. I would find it very frustrating to hear a good line in my head but not be able to execute it due to inadequate keywork. After all, we're only talking about a simple fourth.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-07-30 18:36
Still, it all comes down to $$ and value. How much do the basses cost that don't have that "design flaw"? Surely, it wasn't an oversight . . . but rather a calculated decision to be at a certain price point. There are no shortages of full-featured models. This, however, seems rather unique in its offerings.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-07-30 19:38
There are a couple of potential disadvantages to having the l.h. alternate Ab/Eb lever (and these are the reasons I usually removed the key on my own instruments that came with one): First, for those of us with less-than-perfect hand position and finger movement, it can get in the way when trying to reach the other two l.h. spatulas. Second, it adds yet another relatively flimsy and wobbly (side-to-side), closely-spaced lever to an already troublesome cluster of levers. Good design and workmanship could minimize or even eliminate these problems, but unfortunately good mechanical design is not found nearly often enough in most bass clarinets.......As Fred says, non-inclusion of this alternate key was probably a reasonable cost-reduction decision.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-07-30 20:15
Given the numerous parts for bass in A and the rarity of that instrument, I think there's a good reason for the alternate Ab/Eb key, to avoid the "you can't get there from here" situations in extreme keys that often come up with half-step transposing. The better repair shops can make a key and posts for it, mounted outside the other keys for the left little finger in the "up and over" style used on the current Buffet and Leblanc sopranos.
However, I think the best solution was invented by Kalmen Opperman, or perhaps his brother George. Make the left hand low F key into two concentric rods (like the flute trill keys) and mount the alternate Ab/Eb key there. This puts the finger touch out of the way, on the same level as the left low F lever and just beyond it (like the low D lever on the Leblanc paperclip contras). I've tried a soprano with that arrangement, and it worked beautifully.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Igloo Bob
Date: 2004-07-31 00:48
I have nothing to add to the discussion, just thanks for all the info from everyone. I do wonder, however, if the Low-C Bass will be widely distributed, or only available from Brooks Mays like the original is.
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Author: graham
Date: 2004-08-02 08:38
On the E flat to A flat point, it does arise often enough to be worth addressing. e.g. Wagner Rhinefahrt (or whatever it is called) under pinning the strings a little before the famous solo.
The point is that you do not need the extra A flat key if you give an alternative thumb key for the E flat (as Amati does - though it also gives the extra A flat).
On advertising, one of the criteria for legal advertising is that it be honest. If the designer does not believe in the truth of a claim that is being made (in this case so emphatically) in the advertisement, then, whether or not the claim could conceivably be proved true, that is not what I call honest advertising, and so, I imagine, would fail that test.
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2004-08-12 07:39
Was just asking Tom if the low c was available for reselling/distribution in Europe. I'm located in brussels.
Part of his answer was that the low c should aready be available through US reseller channels ( but i couldn't find one.)
And i have of course to play test the instrument before undertaking any commercial action.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2004-08-15 14:11
Well, one argument in favor of the alt. Ab lever is that it's actually also an alt. Eb lever 2 octaves up from the low Eb, and if you play the Bach cello suites (as I do) off the original concert-key part, there's an eighth-note leap in one of the suites, from low Eb to 4th-space Eb, that's a laff-riot to play in time. I have an older Series-9 Selmer bass (to low Eb) and between the painful left-hand ergonomics and lack of that spare Ab/Eb lever, I'll be VERY interested in Ridenour's horn.
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Author: William
Date: 2004-08-15 16:21
Regarding the Ab-Eb lever, I like mine on my Buffet Prestige bass and had ample opportunity to use it while playing some of the great bass clarinet parts written by Bruce Coughlin in his arrangements for the Broadway bound musical, "Heartland", which priemiered in Madison, WI last December. I've also encountered many situations in some modern wind ensemble music and orchestral A bass parts that make "that key" usefull. Glad I've got mine, but am still wondering how to make use of all those low D3s. Three of them--and only one way to do Db3 and C3. Hmmm......(??)
Now, getting back to the original question, how does Tom Ridenours bass clarinet compare to the LeBlancs, Buffets, etc, already on the market?? Better, worse, just as good, good "for the money" or all hype?
(I do personally know and respect TR and intend to try one asap for myself)
Post Edited (2004-08-16 00:09)
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