 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-06-17 06:26
Question for everyone out there playing dixieland. I'm looking for the best quality fake book possible that is available in B-flat pitch as well as concert key. Please name your faves so that I can google and investigate them.
Allen Cole
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Author: clarinetgiggirl
Date: 2004-06-17 10:07
Thats exactly what I need too, but haven't managed to find anything yet.
I shall be watching this post with interest!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2004-06-17 13:29
I have a [the?] Zep Meissner set of 8, to "go from" and a few old stocks. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-17 16:19
Any fake book will do, Allen. You need the lead line (melody) and chords, what you do with it (style/interpretation) is up to you.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2004-06-17 16:54
Check out this site:
http://americanmusiccaravan.com/dixiefak.html#upgraded
Post Edited (2004-06-17 16:54)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-06-18 07:09
Ron, you misunderstand the question.
I am aware of what a fake book is, and how to use it. I am also adept in the genre.
What I am hoping to find out is the identity of a fake book (not a set of arrangments) that has what players consider the best variety of songs and best quality chord changes. (i.e. not pasted-up vocal lines from piano sheet music with a bunch of superfluous chord grids to harmonically justify each melody note)
There are a lot of fake books out there, and I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a dawg. Unfortunately, most publishers can't or won't give me a peek inside their book over the internet. Also, given the fact that my role includes parallel harmony, I don't want to read new tunes from a concert pitch book.
I hope that this clarifies my question.
Allen Cole
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-06-18 07:14
Todd, do you have experience with the book that you provided the link for?
My bandleader sent me that and one other link to consider. A lot looks pretty good about this book, and the author talks a good game. My only hesitation is the fact that there is no sample sheet to view.
If you have used this book, I'd like to know what you think of it.
Allen Cole
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Author: clarinetdaddy
Date: 2004-06-18 08:21
I have my own fake book that I have had since 1989. It seems that maybe I should put it out on the market. I have leads sheets and some transposed Bb parts for close to over 250 tunes. Enough tunes to play over a four hour gig.
Miles
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-06-18 22:03
Maybe you shoud publish it. I would be interesting to know how many of the songs have moved into the public domain.
One thing is for sure. Nothing seems to have emerged as the standard.
Allen Cole
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-19 07:40
I've been known to misunderstand a thing or two in my lifetime, Allen, and perhaps I have done so with your question. In which case I apologize.
I'd like to at least make an attempt to clarify what I said though, then I'll sit down and shut up. I think I had in mind when I posted my response something quite similar to Clarinetdaddy's personal collection. Lots of lead sheets (200 or more 8 1/2" X 5 1/2") handwritten lead line with chords written in above the staff. Most of the tunes are in concert key, a few difficult ones were penciled additionally in Bb key. These are not arrangements, they're tunes that were hand copied from library books, sheet music, standard fake books, childrens song books, folk tune books and other sources I'm at a loss to remember now. 97% were for rehearsal only just to get the foundation to build "head arrangements" on. That's why I said that just about any 'fake' book will do.
Some songs are learned by listening to recordings, by the way. In that case you save yourself the bother of writing anything down 
My understanding of "dixieland" is that you make up your own improvisational arrangements with whatever combination of instruments happen to be in your ensemble. I've personally played in combos of from two to eight players and I've never known anyone doing that kind of playing to read sheet music on the job.
I'm hoping this will either clarify my statement to your satisfaction or establish once and for all that I'm totally off the beam.
- ron b -
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-06-20 06:07
Ron, what you're telling me--and yes, I think you're being clear--is applicable primarily to bands which rehearse regularly and who share a significant knowledge of the repertoire as well as a preference for the style.
What I am dealing with is a group of good players who have difficulty getting together for rehearsal and who frequently need to substitute players. In this case, the quality/format of the fake book IS important. Here are a few of the considerations:
1 - Chord changes have to be clear and logical. Fake books put together from pasted piano/vocal sheet music often have a lot of unnecessary and potentially confusing chords marked. I'm looking for Real Book quality and simplicity. At any given time, we could have as many as two borrowed rhythm players.
2 - Transposing adds one more extra chore to a job that already requires everyone to do more than what's on the music. We really want to have books in both C and B-flat so that we can rehearse efficiently, and so we won't scare off substitute players.
3 - Our players--at least our wind players--are experienced in the style, but come from diverse periods and influences in their listening. Having the songs already written down properly in a fake book allows us to study unfamiliar things on our own.
You are correct in asserting that we need to know the same repertoire, be able to deal with concert-key music, and be able to learn things from recordings. And we can do this, but having quality fake books including a B-flat transposition allows us to learn faster and cover more material.
Allen Cole
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Author: ron b
Date: 2004-06-20 07:15
Ah, now it's much clearer in my mind now - thank you, Allen. (I don't need help crossing the street [yet], but it's coming up
I couldn't get the Todd's link to work for me :( Is that the Jazz Fake Book(forgot its exact title) that Bob Gardner was so enthusiastic about? Although Bob is now way beyond the beginner stage, he said he likes its straightforward easy to read format. Might be worth checking out if your local music store stocks them. I've seen it on eBay a couple of times, just wasn't in a bidding mode at the moment :| I also remember in high school (early fifties) having some printed Dixieland charts, suitable for a seven or eight piece outfit, that were pretty good. A great way to get started or to have at hand for your situation, Allen. I remember specifically playing Milenburg Joys and Panama during an assembly. I think there was a series of arrangements. I don't know if they're still in print. Maybe tucked away in some school's music library somewhere???
Best musical wishes to you, Allen
- rb -
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Author: Wes
Date: 2004-06-20 18:46
The old "Real Book" is not for dixieland as it only includes a few tunes in that category, has many errors in chords and melodies, and mostly covers more modern tunes.
If you want to continue playing a long time, it may make sense to copy out your own dixieland book, clearly copied with easy to read notes and chords for the Bb clarinet. You might buy a standard jazz fakebook in Bb and Xerox the tunes you need to put in your own book. You can also make a piano book in C if you have the time which might make the keyboard player happy. Good luck!
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-06-21 01:00
Yes, I looked at the book in the link, but there were sample pages. All I can say is that the author definitely talks a good game.
As for the books of charts, I have a number of partial sets but see no point in using them. The musicians already know what they're doing. They just need to get on the same page in terms of specific songs.
Wes, I was thinking more along the lines of the newer Real Books from Sher. I agree with you that the most reliable fake sheets are the ones you make yourself, but we have already been doing that and it has proved unsatisfactory in terms of the labor involved and the number tunes that we have at our fingertips.
There is much to be said for having some good collections and just being able to shop through them as a band. This is the goal, anyway.
Thanks to all for your help.
Allen Cole
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2004-06-29 18:49
I have the C and Bb versions of David Littlefield's Dixieland Fakebook, and can recommend it. I also have a great many other fakebooks with which to compare, and I would say Littlefield gets high marks for legibility.
Some other pluses: verses are included (usually left out in fakebooks); a number of famous solos are written out on adjacent pages, e.g. Bix and Tram's solos on Singin' the Blues, the Picou High Society line etc.; many lyrics are included, and a great deal more are emailed when you order the book; the book is constantly maintained - I have submitted corrections to which DW responded immediately, and I understand you can send for updates as they are available.
There is a sample page:
http://americanmusiccaravan.com/books.html#ordering%20FB
Mostly I have no problem with the harmonizations - there's always room for argument, but I think they're pretty true to the era (e.g. no minor 7ths or 9ths on old tunes, etc.). I do think he does a poor job on credits and documentation, often supplying the name and date of a famous performance of the tune, but not the composer and date of composition. Lots of references to Firehouse Five, Turk Murphy and such.
There are performance suggestions which must be intended to help you fit in with Dixieland custom. I personally feel these are a bad thing, having the effect of cutting the player off from the inspiration that can be got from the original arrangements, and promulgating the cliches of modern Dixieland.
I look forward to DW's impending book ("Vol. 2") of transcriptions direct from Jelly Roll, Oliver and Armstrong recordings.
John Morton
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