 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ajablons
Date: 2004-05-26 03:03
I have a Buffet R-13 A clarinet about 10 years old. I've noticed that the A above the staff really sounds harsh and/or on the verge of squeaking. Obviously this makes the Second movement of the Mozart really difficult to play.
Is this a normal quirk of an A?
thanks,
andy
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-05-26 03:48
An undertone (or "grunt") particularly on the A5 is caused by a number of factors:
1. airflow not fast enough (high tongue position)
2. improper diaphragm support
3. tension in the throat
4. improper embouchure development
5. incorrect mouthpiece/reed resistance
This is also an especially common problem with Buffet A clarinets from about 160xxx (1975) on, when the register vent tube was lengthened. A common fix on Buffet A clarinets is to shorten the register vent tube by approximately .020" .
Other equipment related causes could be that the height of the register key pad opening is set incorrectly or a register vent tube which needs to be cleaned....GBK
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2004-05-26 16:27
I had this problem with nearly every A clarinet I was trying at IMS last fall. I don't know what the heck they are doing to their clarinets to make that happen.
Don't worry it isn't anything wrong with your playing because I know i'm not having fundamental problems.
Perhaps there is a probem with bores of the horns. Maybe a talented repairman can fix it? I'm sure someone like rick sayre can handle it.
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2004-05-26 16:30
I would go with what GBK said. I had the same problem with my RC Prestige A, and I had the register vent tube shortened. The instrument was fine after that.
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2004-05-26 16:37
The could also be a small leak. I had this problem and found a tiny leak in the 3rd from the top side key, the one that opens with the Eb key for chromatic F#. When pushing air for the A above the staff, the small leak was forced more open, and the result was exactly as you described.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-05-26 21:57
BTW, Andy, I'd just like to point out that for some reason, the high A/B/C on a lot of clarinets seem to be fairly quirky. I'f also found that sometimes a new barrel can help alleviate the problem (it probably fixes what GBK states as #5, the resistance). But yeah, those particular notes can definitely be a pain.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2004-05-26 22:03
99 chances out of 100, its the register vent tube. I had thought Buffet had this problem licked, but I saw it on a brand new Buffet R-13 A last fall.
The advice to shorten the tube is correct. Take it to a repair tech who can cut it on his/her lathe and polish the end. You don't want rough edges there, that will also mar the tone.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetpxress.com
Expert clarinet repairs
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Author: ajablons
Date: 2004-05-27 05:12
Great thanks for all the advice, I'll have to see my repairman about this.
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2004-05-27 10:09
We had an english teacher over here recently doing an exchange with one of our colleges teachers. In my lessons she and I discussed what I should be looking for in new clarinets when I go to the Buffet Factory. The first thing she said was to be weary of the A5 particularly on the Prestige A clarinets. She told me how she got fed up with her RC Prestiges causing her this problem and so she changed to Howarths. She told me the reason it happens is because of what what GBK said (the register vent tube being lengthened to bring it to A440). I was wondering, if shortening the tube by .020" would this cause the pitch to rise?
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-05-27 12:31
I consider myself SO lucky - I have a Brannenized Leblanc Concerto A and everyone who tries it agrees that the D/A on it is exceptional, even a little 'covered' on the D.
The lesson in this: Brannenizing is wonderful if you can afford it. My Bb isn't Brannenized and there is such a huge difference. Anyone has an R13 Brannenized? Does it help?
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-27 13:02
Shortening the Register vent tube or inserting a Bb Register vent Tube instead - which is shorter. Buffet un-officially refers to the latter as "Curtis Syndrome".
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-27 16:47
Aussie nick said:
"mw - Do you know if shortening it affects intonation?"
------------------------
Absolutely.
If anyone ever tells you differently, they are wrong. For every action there is a reaction. The change to a Bb Tube on an R-13 will affect tuning of the 12th's to be certain. [BTW: dealer cost on the Bb tube is $6-7 + shipping.]
Of course, tradeoffs can sometimes be managed. Depends on YOUR point of view and how a (mechanical) change affects your individual sound.
According to informal discussions with a Buffet rep, many students at Curtis had implemented the change. No more stuffiness & generally improved throat tones & Chalumeau, w/some improvement in Clarion tuning as well.
Note: Many techs have been shortening the R13 A Tube for years. Techs like Brannen Woodwinds, etc. have made ("shortening") adjustments to the Register Tube changes which didn't involve a new or replacement Tube. This was stated earlier by Walter Grabner.
Caveat: Buffet Crampon is/was the designer of the R13 "A" & of the many changes that the R13 "A" has undergone physically through the years. BC does NOT sanction substitution of the Bb Tube - clearly they do not believe such a modification to be a panacea. BC knows it presents tuning tradeoffs. Occasionally, modification may work with a particular Clarinet - the view is that it's possible that the modification COULD improve things but on a case-by-case - just as additional undercutting or changes to the interior tonehole walls can bring about (desired or more desirable) tuning changes.
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Author: Tara
Date: 2004-05-27 19:46
LeWhite, I play R-13s and have had both my A and Bb Brannenized this year. Made a huge difference in the "grunt" on the A. My Bb didn't have that sort of response issue, but I noticed a huge difference in it as well... it had been awhile since I'd had anything done to it, and the Brannens brought it back to life!!! Without a doubt the best money I ever spent clarinet-wise. Now I just have to keep it that way as long as possible!
Tara
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Author: ajablons
Date: 2004-05-28 21:22
Does anyone know of a Northern California repair shop that I could trust to do this type of repair. It sounds like it is something you definately want to have done right.
Thanks again
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-28 22:17
Surely, Buffet gets out to your neck of the woods every now & then - why not call in advance to Francois Kloc & ask for what would be a free consult. Won't cost you a dime & Francois will give your clarinet a great once over (in your presence, no less - very educational).
Plenty of stuffy clarinets are LEAKY clarinets. One shouldn't rely on this Thread to determine a particular problem. Anything is possible.
There are some good techs in Oakland. Clark Fobes no longer does repair work, but is a master.
Post Edited (2004-05-29 02:15)
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Author: ajablons
Date: 2004-05-29 03:39
Wow really? Where would I find this contact information? (sorry not very famliliar with Buffet's trips around:))
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Author: ajablons
Date: 2004-05-29 03:40
Another option for me is Chicago, since that is where I'm from, and go there 4x a year. When I lived in Chicago, I didn't realize what a mecca it was for the Clarinet. I miss that.
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Author: mw
Date: 2004-05-29 12:28
Francois Kloc at:
The Music Group Ltd.
1-800-426-7068
E-mail: francois.kloc@musicgroup.com
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Author: peking moon
Date: 2004-05-29 21:09
Sorry if I sound ignorant, but is this term "brannenized" referring to shortening the register tube? I also have had similar problems on my R-13 A as well as tone problems with throat tone Bb. Guy Chadash had repositioned the register tube a few years ago, but I do have mixed emotions about the results. He did not shorten the register tube and certain works (Brahms Trio) are very tricky when you have added resistance leaping between registers. I wasn't sure what caused this problem and thought perhaps I had a leaking pad.
I am looking into buying a set of Vintage Model R-13s, but wonder if this problem is consistant with all Buffet models. Has anyone out there tried this model and have any of these problems been resolved?
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Author: Wes
Date: 2004-05-30 02:20
One common source of leaks is chips from the tonehole edges. These are only visible with the key off but are quite simple to fix. These are usually present to some extent in most wood clarinets and other instruments, even when new from the factory. The cause of these chips is that it is difficult to make sharp tonehole edges in wood without a little of it chipping. The continued usage of the clarinet may cause these chips to appear, also.
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2004-05-31 10:46
So then I pose this question.. why are there are there a few really amazing R-13's with out the grunt and the stuff A and what not? What is so different about these better r-13s and why can't buffet make more like them.
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