 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2004-04-17 03:23
Hi,
I've been trying to prepare for my audition for the band I'm going to be in next year on both Bb and Eb (sop.). The scales are killing me: not on Bb, but on Eb. I can play my scales just fine on Bb––No problems. (Okay, well a couple but not significant ones).
Eb, that's another story. On my Bb, I am playing all 12 scales two 8-va, with the exceptions of E, F, F#, and G: which I am playing three 8va. On my Eb, I can't reach the higher notes. The highest note I can reach on Eb, comfortably, is D right above thumb and register key C. (D6 I think) I can sometimes slur up to G, but I can't tongue above D without it become toneless. Are there any alternate fingers or tips that will help? My D and D# sound exactly the same-- I'm just adding the fork-fingering B-natural/F# sliver key. (I read on this BBoard that you add the sliver key anyways to bring the note up to pitch anyways..) I am having a lot of troubles and I don't want to have to play those scales two 8va. I have 6 weeks before auditions... any thoughts? Any ideas will be appreciated. I play on a Bundy Resonite, so intonation shouldn't be TOO horrendous, right? Maybe I need a stronger reed? I don't know. You people are probably twenty times more experienced than me so I am asking you now. I will ask my teacher, but currently he is out of town, so I can't.
-MG
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-17 04:12
That IS a toughy. Does the sliver key works for F to F# in the clarion and Bb to B natural in the chalemaeou? Cause if so, then I really can't even BEGIN to understand why it wouldn't work in the altissimo. You can always master the "flip" of the finger from index to middle if nothing else seems to work. If Oehler style instrument players and flute players can master the flip of the fingers (necessary for certain runs. Specially on flute with limited alternate fingerings), then you can too.
Alexi
Retired, playing more sax than clarinet, but still playing clarinet and still loving it!
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Author: ksclarinetgirl
Date: 2004-04-17 06:03
I've been playing Eb for over two years now, and I still have problems getting up to an altissimo F#-G consistently. A lot of it depends on the reed. Right now I'm using Marca 3.5s, though I'm not that impressed with them. I think I ordered a strength too hard. But anyway, the F# and G are finally starting to come out. I don't really know for sure (anybody that does, feel free to correct me) but I think a lot of it is muscle.
What reed and strength are you using on Eb and Bb?
Stephanie :o)
"Vita Brevis, Ars Longa"
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-17 06:52
Quote:
What reed and strength are you using on Eb and Bb? And mouthpiece . . . ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) Forgot about that one! Never underestimate the value of the mouthpiece!
Retired, playing more sax than clarinet, but still playing clarinet and still loving it!
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2004-04-17 09:57
A good mouthpiece is crucial indeed. The combination mouthpiece/reed has to be one so that you easily can play at least up to altissimo G fairly comfortably. You just have to search for the right combination for yourself. At first use a hard reed to make sure that the notes really come out up there. Practice the altissimo register only three to five minutes at the time with the hard reed and stop immediately if you start to pinch.
The embushure has to be built up slowly and gradually to prevent dammage to your lower lip. Your diaphragme is your best friend together with a lot of air. If you dare to break the rules you can experiment to use air in the cavity above E6 to create an air cusion that gives the air stream an extra push.
Personnaly I use Vandoren White Master 3½ together with a M Lurie Crystal for orchestra. Some B40 work fine. Selmer C series are worth a try too.
Good luck,
Alphie
Clarinet/Eb clarinet RSPO
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2004-04-17 14:26
Let's see:
I use a Vandoren 5RV Lyre w/ VD traditional #3 reeds on my Bb clari, then on my Eb I use a Hite mouthpiece with 3.5 VD traditionals.
I will try doing the finger flip between D and D# because it sounds fine, I think, on the Bb/B and F/F#.
I've never played the Eb in an actual band, because that's what I'm auditioning for. (Ours is graduating this year) How high does usual high school lit. take the Eb? Some songs played before are "The Fairest of the Fair March", "Pineapple Poll", and a few others.
Maybe I should try the exercise where you start on low A and add the 8va key, then half hole the index finger and work it up? I don't know if that was a very good description, but we'll see.
For the scales, does everyone use the same fingerings on those scales on Eb as you would on Bb?
-MG
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-04-17 16:17
When I played Eb in college, my teacher told me from the beginning NOT to use Eb clarinet reeds. He taught me to take Mitchell Lurie #5's for Bb and modify them as follows: (for a Hite Eb mpc of late 70's vintage)
1 - Clip off the butt end of the reed with toenail clippers
2 - Narrow the reed by cutting off the sides with a razor blade
3 - Clip the tip of the reed with a reed clipper, and then begin the process of normal adjustment with reed knife, sandpaper, rush or whatever.
This did not have as pretty or pure a sound as the Bb clarinet, but neither did the chalemeau, I'm told. But the purpose was to have reliable pitch. Eb generally doubles the flutes, and bad pitch can kill an otherwise good band.
I never had to use fingerings different that those on Bb, even in altissimo. But I can't imagine having the degree of control with a normal Eb reed that I had with my teacher's (or maybe it was David Hite's) special recipe.
While I enjoy more flexible setups on Bb (#4 reeds, medium tip openings), I don't really spend a ton of time in the altissimo. If I did, I'd probably return to #5 reeds and close facings. To play a flexible setup on an Eb would cause me to abdicate control of my pitch. (of course, I was also playing bass clarinet and bari sax in other ensembles at the time)
Allen Cole
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2004-04-17 21:47
I don't think I have the ability to clip reeds–– I don't have the necessary equipment nor do I have the muscle stability. ;-) I still don't know what to do...
-MG
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-04-18 02:06
You have to wonder: with all of the different brands of reeds that make Eb reeds, not one of them makes one as good as a clipped down Bb reed? I'm not sure I buy that. I enjoy playing my eefer but there's no way I'm going to hassle with clipping down Bb reeds.
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Author: msroboto
Date: 2004-04-18 03:20
I know only one person who plays Eb. I lead a sheltered clarinet existance.
She clips the Bb reeds for Eb.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2004-04-18 04:48
Vandoren White Master Bb reeds, with about 1 cm clipped off the bottom (the butt end) work very well on the Eb clarinet with no additional alteration or profiling.
Many players find that traditional Eb clarinet reeds do not have enough cane to support the altissimo register, thus the reason for using Bb reeds ...GBK
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Author: ksclarinetgirl
Date: 2004-04-18 06:06
My Marca Eb reeds aren't the best , I need to spend some time modifying them, but for the most part I'm getting a good response out of reeds I have modified (sanding etc.)
When playing altissimo on the Bb I usually have the Ab/Eb key for tuning purposes. However, I'm finding that I don't usually have to have that key down for altissimo on the Eb.
In my experience, most band parts won't go above an altissimo E or Eb. I've seen an altissimo F# once or twice. I've seen an altissimo G in one piece, but it was in clarinet choir. But like I said, I've only been playing it for two years, and I don't always play Eb in band, just when there's a unique part or the flutes need help (which is often...)
Stephanie :o)
"Vita Brevis, Ars Longa"
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Author: allencole
Date: 2004-04-18 07:21
The other thing about clipping the reeds--at least in my case--might have to do with the David Hite mpc. I know that he was making Alto Clarinet/Bassett Horn mouthpieces at the time where he actually recommended using alto sax reeds.
Allen Cole
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2004-04-18 15:36
Thanks everyone to their feedback. I'll try to put some of it to work... I hope. Clipping reeds just seems so painstaking, but I guess it's worth it to you guys, and that's fine. I'll try clipping a Bb reed and see how that goes. GBK: Those VD White Master reeds aren't sold anywhere around here, so I think I'm going to have to order them if all other solutions don't work.
ksclarinetgirl wrote:
> In my experience, most band parts won't go above an altissimo E or Eb. I've > seen an altissimo F# once or twice. I've seen an altissimo G in one piece, > but it was in clarinet choir. But like I said, I've only been playing it for two > years, and I don't always play Eb in band, just when there's a unique part or > the flutes need help (which is often...)
I still can't go above a D, tonguing, but I can do it slurring. (Sometimes) I have to play an E three-8va chromatic so that's not good. I'll try to get my playing up so I can hit at least the E.
-MG
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Author: potatohead
Date: 2004-04-19 01:58
About what GBK said about regular Eb reeds not having enough cane to support the altissimo: I looked at my reeds and, like you said, they were paper-thin! No wonder I can't hit altissimo notes! It was very translucent. I'm considering using the White Masters, but I can't find them anywhere in my vicinity. Should I try moving up to a strength 4 for now and see what happens? Or what?
-MG
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2004-04-19 03:37
Call the mail order firm Woodwind and Brasswind (1-800-348-5003) and have them send you their woodwind catalogue. The White Masters are listed in the catalogue.
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2004-04-20 16:45
I played Eb for seven years - high school and college. I used Eb reeds with whatever stock mouthpiece came with the school instrument and didn't have an extraordinary problem with the altissimo. Sometimes your parts will really go high up there, even in the high school/college band literature. Over time, your embouchure will tighten up. The main thing to get out those notes is to work on controlling the air flow from your diaphragm. You might want to check whether you are fingering everything properly; your hands may be unconsciously reaching for the bigger clarient positions. The overwhelming problem in playing the Eb is the intonation.
Now that I've switched back to the Bb, my extended tour of duty on the Eb has been an asset. The Bb altissimo is a piece of cake and the Bb intonation is a joy.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-04-20 18:33
I've been using Glotin and Vandoren regular Eb clarinet reeds, #4 or 4-1/2, on a refaced Pomarico crystal mouthpiece and am having no problems at all playing up high --- no cut-down or White Master Bb clarinet reeds needed. Seems to me that if (a) your mouthpiece is decent and (b) your horn is not significantly off the mark, that you should be able to use commercial Eb clarinet reeds just the way they were intended. Remember that the vamp length of most Bb clarinet reeds is longer than the window of the Eb mouthpiece, and that tends to counteract the additional thickness of the reed blank itself, so there's not as much 'thickness' benefit to be derived from the use of a Bb reed as you might expect.
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Author: skye
Date: 2004-04-20 20:31
I also use cut down Bb reeds, I find the tuning is better, haven't a clue why.
I haven't seen many wind band parts go over a top F. I have a really old Eb clarinet and would like to get a new Buffet one, but just don't have the funds right now. However, despite all its difficulties, I really love playing it, and fortunately our band conductor seems to be one of the few who really likes Eb clarinet, and he's a brass player, so that's not bad!
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Author: klarinetist
Date: 2004-04-20 20:57
It seems to me that embrochure and diaphragm have as much to do with this as reeds and mouthpieces. When in college and studying afterwards I had several teachers talk to me about " taking more reed in my mouth", or "sliding my jaw down the reed", which in effect does the same thing as you climb into the altissimo register. A very subtle and minor but important adjustment.
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Author: claaaaaarinet!!!!
Date: 2004-04-21 06:09
I have a cardboard box in which I save all of my discarded Bb reeds. When I need Eb reeds, I clip off the bottoms of a bunch of old Bb reeds using a scissors (just the bottoms to make them fit on the Eb mouthpiece - I don't alter the reeds in any other way) and then play through them. Usually I can find 4 or 5 goods ones without much trouble. It saves money and I think they play better than commercial Eb reeds.
I want to mention that I recently bought a new Yamaha 681 Eb clarinet and I love it. I play R13 soprano clarinets, but when I went shopping for a new Eb the Yamaha was the best clarinet I tried. I tried Buffet, Yamaha and Patricola. The Yamaha had the best scale, the easiest legato and the most vibrant, clarinet-like sound.
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Author: clarinerd
Date: 2004-04-22 02:12
Potatohead,
Clipping reeds does not have to be painstaking. Just go to your local hardware store and buy a pair of wire cutting pliers. They work great on the butts of clarinet reeds too.
Also, if your high notes are hard to hit, you should take all of the good advice people have given you here, and also use the sharpest fingering. It may not be the same fingering as on your Bb clarinet.
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