 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-04-09 01:21
Hi b-boarders!
Yesterday I received my Leblanc Concerto A, Brannenised, from IMS. It took them 4 months to send it, and another 2 for it to get here.
That wait being over, I am EXTREMELY dissappointed, to the point of being quite upset.
It's nickel-plated. I wanted silver and I paid for silver. And it looks to me as though it's going to crack - it has a huge crevasse-like groove from the top of the register key right up to the tenon. It's cold here at the moment and the instrument is FREEZING, so I'm not going to play it. A few of the tenon rings will fall off if held vertically (mainly barrells). The only thing I can say is, without playing it, I can tell that the Brannens did an incredibly good job with it!
Ok so maybe this all sounds petty to you all, but, this isn't what I wanted. My Bb is silver, I think Nickel looks unpresentable, not to mention feels bad under my fingers and will eventually turn black!
I'm lucky because I know a girl here who is selling her Concerto A (selected by Lisa at IMS but not Brannenised), SILVER-plated keys, and she's had it about 2 years and didn't really play it much, which is why she's selling it. I've had a play and it's a very nice instrument!
Is sending it back justified?
Ps. Another thing - the little certificate with the s/n and who inspected it is wrong - the s/n does not match the instrument. Don't know if this is significant or not.
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Author: Amy Tindall
Date: 2004-04-09 01:35
If it means anything coming from me... I'd send it back. It's not what you want. And it's not what you ordered... Why would you not send it back? : )
Amy E. Tindall
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-09 01:54
If you're not happy with it, and you still can, send it back. You should be happy with it. Bottom line. In my opinion, the nickel/silver key difference is negligable, but if it really means something to you, and you paid for it, then get what you deserve. And if this second hand concerto you think will be worth looking into, then do it. Only YOU can really decide if you're unhappy enough to send it back, but from what I hear, it looks like you are. Otherwise, you wouldn't question it so much and still be looking around for others to replace it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2004-04-09 01:57
You never mentioned how it plays (because you didn't even try it).....
After all- what are you going to use it for? Show and Tell?
Iefer the feel of silver plated keys, but why don't you talk to IMS about the key issue, and play the instrument to see if it's worth keeping. The tenon ring issue can be fixed. The crack can also be fixed, and you even have a crack warranty for a year with Leblanc for the joints and 6 months for the barrels and bell.
It's your call, but all that matters is how the instrument feels when you play it and how you sound on it.
Bradley
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-09 02:10
For that matter, play it and compare it with your friend's. If you're friend's is almost as good as or as good as (or better), then you know to return it and buy your friends and have THAT one brannenized. Plus you'll probably save a bit too (buying secondhand instead of new) and it was handpicked at IMS.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2004-04-09 02:16
I would send it back. It's not what was ordered and I know if I had ordered silver keys and was sent nickel, it would be returned just as soon as I contacted IMS, with or without RMA number. I think the warranty card/inspection card is of consequence also.
jbutler
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2004-04-09 02:43
IMHO, after all the time and trouble you have already put into this purchase, it makes sense to try it out before deciding to send it back. You will need to contact IMS to send it back anyway, and I am a believer in at least giving people a chance to fix a problem when it occurs. Put the ball in their court about the nickel vs silver issue and see what they will do for you.
The tenon rings can be fixed. I don't know if the groove on the outside (from my reading of your description) means it is more likely to crack or not. Maybe someone with knowledge in that area will respond here. In the end, though, if you don't get some satisfaction when you talk to the seller, you can certainly decide to send it back.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-09 02:55
What puzzles me is the crevice-like groove and the falling tenon rings. I was under the impression that cracks formed slowly from playing a cold, non-broken in instrument and that through inspection you can catch them small and stop playing until you've had them pinned. IMS wouldn't sell a clarinet with a crack in it (at least I hope not). And the Brannens should sure as heck have found it and repaired it as part of the brannenizing process with IMS if it did happen (or at least during a final inspection before sending it out. Or at least report it). And they were the ones playing on it to make sure everything was done correctly. And you haven't played on it yet.
So that means that during the few days shipping process from the brannens to you, the clarinet went from being "perfect" to having a "huge crevasse-like groove" and tenon rings that fall off?
I don't know much about this. Does this sound normal to you knowledgable folk out there? That in a span of a few days of not being played and through transport a clarinet could go from "perfect, freshly overhauled" condition to "huge crevice-like groove with tenon rings falling off"? If not then I suspect something fishy going on here . . . .
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2004-04-09 02:58)
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Author: msroboto
Date: 2004-04-09 03:01
I wonder if the card that LeWhite got with the serial numbers not matching the instrument is actually from the one he was supposed to get.
So somewhere there is a person with the card that goes with his instrument that probably ordered nickel keys.
I don't know just a thought.
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Author: Contra
Date: 2004-04-09 03:41
I think you got the wrong instrument. If the serial number doesn't match up, then maybe they made a mistake and sent you an instrument that was due to be refurbished. Maybe not. But if I was sent an instrument in that condition with a mismatched serial number, I'd do some serious checking into it.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-04-09 03:57
Gee, I have no idea why you got what you got, and I won't even speculate. The main problem is this: What you got is not what you ordered.
If you bought a car with a serial number that didn't match the paperwork, what would you do, ignore that and drive it? Or if some of the trim was falling off? I hope not.
Surely you are disappointed, having waited so long. Personally, I would bite the bullet and get rid of that thing in a heartbeat. Play it? What for? Why bother? Again, it is *not* what you ordered.
Alex, if a Clarinet is exposed to freexing temperatures, it is possible for extreme damage to occur due to expansion of any water in the wood. If it's bad enough, this can happen with explosive force. Of course, from the falling-off tenon rings, this one has obviously shrunk some due to loss of water.
LeWhite, I do not think it asppropriate to say anything like, "Oh, gee, that's not too bad, you'll get over it, and everything will be so peachy." I grieve with you. This one is just not alive.
Regards,
John
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-04-09 04:01
With no prejudice towards International or you, I would say that JMcAulay is right. If you odered the instrument in silver plate and they shipped nickel, then they shipped wrong. The rest of the faults described are immaterial.
Stuff happens. Let International make it right.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-04-09 07:38
Quick update.
I played it. It's INCREDIBLE. It is one of the nicest A clarinets I've ever played. So now, I REALLY don't know what to do.
I discovered something else. There is a crack on the inside of the tenon socket in the bell, it runs right down the tenon and about halfway down the bell, which has been repaired but is still very obvious. The 'Concerto' symbol on the bell is different from the rest, I believe that this bell did not come with the instrument. The barrells dont have numbers on them, they're blank, and one ring at the bottom of the smaller barrell is way too large = obviously not the correct and original one.
The story behind this instrument is that someone ordered it, got it Brannenised, and was unhappy with it so sent it back. So I didnt pay for that. It's also been 6 months since I ordered it, so it's very possible that much cracking has occurred.
Despite it playing SO well, this might be one to send back based on principal.
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2004-04-09 11:33
Dump it, send it back, don't take "no" for an answer. It's not what you ordered, and it's got issues that could affect it's long term durability. Sounds to me like a POS, despite how it plays. It's a "Franken-clarinet"! Run away, run away!!!!
The story is interesting. Sounds like they decided to send it to you since someone else didn't want it, hoping you would take it off their hands. Pure conjecture of course on my part. Really makes me wonder though ............
MOO,
Matt
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Author: icecoke12
Date: 2004-04-09 13:08
LeWhite:
"The only thing I can say is, without playing it, I can tell that the Brannens did an incredibly good job with it!"
Hi,
I haven't seen a brannenised instrument before (not common in my area) and I'm quite curious to know what does it look like compared to normal instruments that just came from the factory.
Anyway I think you should send it back or at least call/email them to enquire about the wrong serial no, nickel plate and the falling rings and see what they have to say about it!
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Author: Bellflare
Date: 2004-04-09 13:14
Ahem...the s/n doesnt match
the keys are wrong
it has a crack
send it BAAACCKKK
(apologies to Johnny Cochrane)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-09 14:06
If it plays great, keep it!
The rings will tighten up as the instrument gets hydrated, and, anyway, that's the easiest possible repair job.
I would contact IMS and confirm that you are covered by the warranty despite the mismatch in serial numbers.
The crack lines are worrisome, particularly the one that runs down to the register vent, but even if it does crack, it can be fixed under warranty, and the playing qualities won't be harmed.
Good A clarinets are as rare as hen's teeth. I'd do everything possible to hold on to it.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-04-09 14:17
The conclusion I would reach is that they simply sent you the wrong instrument. Contact Lisa and explain the situation to her. Simple!
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2004-04-09 14:18
LeWhite said: The story behind this instrument is that someone ordered it, got it Brannenised, and was unhappy with it so sent it back. So I didnt pay for that. It's also been 6 months since I ordered it, so it's very possible that much cracking has occurred.
Does this mean that you knew it was a return when you ordered it? Who repaired the crack? If it was a return and IMS sent it to you without letting you know that it had cracked and been repaired, I would have a HUGE problem with that. Given that it plays so beautifully keeping it is an option, but you deserve some answers. If you feel funny about anything after you talk to them, absolutely send it back.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-04-09 14:45
If you DO decide to keep it (based on playing ability) I think you're entitled to some large compensation for the mixup. Not only the money for the plating of the keys, but for the crack, for the mismatched serial number, etc. you should receive SOMETHING else. If you do decide to keep it, see if they'll throw in a fancy clarinet case or something 'for the troubles'. Lord knows they can afford to.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-04-09 15:33
Alexi -
While I understand your position, my advice would be to say nothing at all. When a treasure drops into your lap, the last thing you want to do is complain.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Fred
Date: 2004-04-09 15:41
I understand Ken's logic and partially agree. If the A is that good, maybe you should keep it. BUT . . . if you paid for a new, undamage clarinet with silver plating - and received a nickle-plated clarinet with one repaired crack and another crack in the making . . . there should at least be a big discount in the price you pay. Have you heard from IMS yet?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-04-09 15:44
Ken Shaw wrote:
> When a treasure drops into your lap, the last
> thing you want to do is complain.
True, however, the glow from something new and shiny sometimes obscures the faults within. 
In other words:
I'd have someone who plays well and is not emotionally involved independently assess the clarinet if I thought I might want to keep this one. Sometimes the thrill of the new instrument makes us blind to some overwhelming faults. I know of more than a few people who have picked up clarinets because they soinded beautiful but have such extreme intonation problems that now that the players have progressed those clarinets are essentially useless without spending as much money on major surgery as they did to purchase the clarinet.
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Author: JoeMich
Date: 2004-04-09 15:54
Lets look at the facts:
1) Most important: This is not the clarinet that you ordered; it's nickel plated, not silver.
2) A possible crack starting in the top section by the register key, (as received.) on a new instrument.
3) A repaired crack in the bell ........
4) Tennon rings falling off ........
5) Serial number mismatch between data on inspection card and instrument ......
Sure, all of this can be fixed, BUT will you be satisfied with the added tasks of arranging for these repairs to be done and willing to wait, (beyond the 6 months have already waited)? And ....... accept the fact that there may be additional costs involved on your part? Then, what do you have in the end .... the beautiful, new instrument that you visualized and waited 6+ months for, or a repaired "almost-what-I ordered-and-want" clarinet?
If this were my situation, I would not hesitate; I would be very firm with IMS and start the return procedure right now!
Joe.
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Author: Henry
Date: 2004-04-09 16:01
Alternatively, perhaps Ken Shaw is willing to take this treasure off your hands for what you paid for it. And then start from scratch.
Henry
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2004-04-09 17:13
there is no question about it, you should return it, or get a refund for the extra money you paid. i'm sure you paid more than the clarinet is worth. but i think you should return it. in my opinion, ken is wrong. there are so many leblanc A clarinets so even if only 10% of them (and i'm sure at least 30-50%) are good, that is still a lot of excellent clarinets. there is a price difference between nickel and silver (although the looks is the only other difference, sound won't be better on silver because it's silver) so you paid extra. the loose rings can be easily fixed, but still, the wrong plating and crack is enough to return it imediately.
i also have a question, since english is not my first language, what is 'Brannenised'?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-04-09 17:18
clarnibass wrote:
> i also have a question, since english is not my first language,
> what is 'Brannenised'?
We've had many a long thread on this, so we won't start another. It's a term used to denote an overhaul/setup done by Linda and/or Bill Brannen.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-04-09 17:20
We're going to close this one off since I think it's pretty much up to LeWhite as to what he/she's going to do. I think everyone's had their say & reasoning behind their opinion.
Mark C.
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