 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Cathy Tramel
Date: 2000-10-20 13:32
My son's music teacher has recommended the Buffet International clarinet. I cannot find any information on this clarinet. Can anyone tell me if it is comparable to the Buffet E13, which is the clarinet I feel best suits his needs at this time?
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Author: Pam
Date: 2000-10-20 18:21
You can find much information on Buffet instruments on their website. It is at http://www.boosey.com (Buffet instruments are made by Boosey & Hawkes.)
If you can't find the information you want, you could e-mail someone from the site and they could answer questions for you.
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Author: Pat
Date: 2000-10-20 21:28
I own one. I don't use it anymore cause it got blown out. I used it through high school and some of college before i got into the school i am currently going to right now. It's more or less an advanced student wood clarinet. I have never tried a e13 buffet, but i would consider it a step up from the e11. The price is reasonable if you can't afford a r13.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-10-20 21:53
Pat wrote:
>
> I own one. I don't use it anymore cause it got blown
> out. I used it through high school and some of college before
> i got into the school i am currently going to right now. It's
> more or less an advanced student wood clarinet. I have never
> tried a e13 buffet, but i would consider it a step up from the
> e11. The price is reasonable if you can't afford a r13.
Please do not perpetuate the myth of "blow out." This has never been proven. Most instruments can be returned to like new condition if properly overhauled.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-10-21 00:15
Might want to ask a good repair technician to check the key bumper corks (among other things) on that "blown out" clarinet. I'll bet some of those inconspicuous little corks are worn way down, so that the keys don't open to the proper heights any more. Add a few loose (or too-tight) screws, a dirty register key tube or a few weakened springs, and a good clarinet can play like a pig, even if the pads look okay.
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Author: Pat
Date: 2000-10-22 06:39
Even if you do return a instrument to almost new quality, it is still a big gamble. I know with the International i owned it was blown out and had serious intonation problems. It wasn't worth poring money into it when the fact was I needed to get a new horn. I wound up getting my teacher's horn that he considered blown out and i think it is the best sounding horn and i don't have any intonation problems.
I don't believe that blown out is a myth. I personaly think it happens. I don't have scientific data, but it is an obvious thing that happens.
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-22 07:44
Hmmm... Blown out, nah! Rather it is probably in need of a good tune-up. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-10-22 13:41
Pat wrote:
> I don't believe that blown out is a myth. I personaly think it
> happens. I don't have scientific data, but it is an obvious
> thing that happens.
If it were obvious, the data would be easy to get. If your teacher were really serious, he/she'd not sell you a "blown out" clarinet; it should be tossed, right? It's defective.
If someone told me "Hey, here's a clarinet. It's blown out and a piece of junk now and can't be fixed. But since I'm such a nice guy, I'll sell it to you for $500.00" I'd be rolling on the floor laughing! Maybe fifty or a hundred if blow-out were real.
As Dan Leeson once said, "Please send me your blown-out clarinets".
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Author: Fred
Date: 2000-10-22 20:09
I don't believe that clarinets get "blown out". I do believe that clarinets can get to the point that they need a serious overhaul - not just a repad and cleaning - to be restored to great playing condition. I also believe that many instrument repair technicians don't specialize enough in clarinets to do a really great job in regulating such an instrument so that it plays and sounds right. I also believe that many individuals don't care enough to pay what such a service is worth. All that being said, I'm glad that there are enough good technicians out there that can and will do the job and keep our great instruments "noteworthy".
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Author: pat
Date: 2000-10-22 20:18
I will tell more of this story cause I think I forgot to mention a few minor details. My teacher considered it blown out for him. I think everybodies idea on blown out in this disscussion vary. The buffet international horn I owned was blown out for me. Even if I did pour $500 dollars in a overhall, i felt i was better off with the old horn of my teachers. He wasn't using the horn and just wanted to get rid of it. he had several of his other collegues try it out and they said it was a fine horn. i didn't buy it on the spot, but i tried it for a while and eventually bought it cause of everything I liked about it.
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Author: Gordon (New Zealand)
Date: 2000-10-23 16:43
I am a repairer of 25 years. As clarinets get older they carry more and more scars of superficial and misguided repair work. I believe that this is what is called blow out. Of course these instruments play badly! And there are VERY FEW repairers who have sufficient clues and perfectionism to be capable of recognising, let alone undoing this damage! ...No matter how much you pay them! No wonder the term 'blow out' has gained credibility.
Most instruments when they are NEW have an array of faults. I believe that when an old instrument is PROPERLY overhauled it will go better than it EVER did.
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Author: Anji
Date: 2000-10-27 21:44
Cathy,
Technical questions aside... is it possible for the boy to play the horn over any length of time? If he doesn't like it, or must make tremendous accomodation to play well....
I would consider the advice of a teacher carefully when they are actually selling products (especially at this level of expense).
While they may be "selecting" the best examples, teachers certainly act as middlemen. I consider their advice more valuable when they have no profit motive.
My first teacher supplemented his income in this manner. Most of those items could be purchased more cheaply on line. Live and learn.
There are lots of really good mail order houses listed in the "Friends of" section here at sneezy. I can't advertise for them in this forum, but why not make a few calls? They can certainly give you an idea of new horn pricing.
Some will even send you several candidates to try before buying.
Is there a qualified repair center nearby? I wouldn't buy a car without a second (disinterested) opinion, and you are likely to have the horn longer than most cars.
The R-13 is the defacto orchestral standard, there are good ones and bad ones.
The International is a good horn, too. There are good ones and bad ones.
****
The ten year old kid that takes his lesson before me plays better than I do on his cheapo plastic horn, even with all my shiny keys.
****
It's mostly about the player and the effort in practice.
****
It comes down to how well the boy works with the horn, and he should really try several to find the best fit.
Good luck, I wish my folks had taken this much interest. Now I'm learning to read music in bifocals.
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Author: Robert Gifford
Date: 2000-10-31 00:57
Well the Buffet International is supposed to be a C-13, which is a Conservatory Clarinet. A Convervatory is a student/intermediate clarinet designed for those students that a looking to continue professonally, I have found that they are slightly better quality than the E series, but not by much.
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Author: klarion
Date: 2009-10-08 17:11
On the International:
I've played one very fine example of one. It was in disrepair with old leaky pads and still sounded better than the E series. I've asked around and my repairman said it was a more advanced intermediate model... right before the professional line.
on other remarks:
"Blown out" is a serious misnomer. However, certain things will happen to change the playing qualities of an instrument. The easily repairable things (mentioned before) aside, here are some examples:
1. Through regular swabbing the bore of the instrument will get changed (This doesn't mean that you shouldn't swab your clarinet often).
2. Bore size an other dimensions will change due to constant contracting and expanding of the wood due to different temperatures and moisture levels.
Even though black wood (grenadilla, mpingo) is a very strong wood, these changes will happen over time. However, the qualities that may get changed will mostly be noticed by some of the most discerning professionals (different minute differences in resistance and "ring" qualities such as over-tone response). Most intermediate players and students won't be much affected by these changes if the instruments are cared for properly and/or overhauled.
Since all pieces of wood are different, there are cases (fact) when the instruments (or parts of them) retain their superb playing qualities and even get better with time.
@ Anji
I'm sorry if you encountered "middle men" out there. Recommending a better quality instrument is not about making money for anyone. It's about the student having an easier time and sounding better!!!
--
... Breathe! It might help you play. - clarinet lesson
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Author: donald
Date: 2009-10-08 18:25
HI there Klarion
I completely agree with part 2 of your explanation of "blow out" and believe that this the explanation for a number of "genuine blow out" cases, and that the explanation given by Gordon Palmer fits many other cases where a clarinet CAN be restored to its former glory by good repair work.
dn
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-10-09 21:53
My son has an International, and it is a C-13. Silver plated keys, made in Germany. Not as heavy as my R-13. Nice instrument for the advancing student and usually pretty affordable. You can also find these used.
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Author: Tommy1733
Date: 2012-05-29 15:05
I must say - "Buffet International" is a rather unfortunate choice for this instrument. Searching for it on Google returned mostly restaurants named "International Buffet".
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