 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-03 04:32
My orchestra instructor (a professional cellist), told me last year that if I wanted to become good at transposing, that it would help to learn all the different clefs. I know that cellists would have a dire need to know all sorts of clefs (I looked at some music and saw some strange things. Apparently there's alto, tenor, treble, bass, and a movable one denoting where middle C is).
I don't think clarinetists really need to know all these clefs, but he then said that if you ever were needed to transpose it, chances are that I could simply read the notes as though they were in a different clef and it should work.
Any thoughts on this? He's a professional string player so maybe his advice was a little off for me as a wind player, but it does make sense if I were ever needed to transpose something originally for a G or D clarinet. Maybe it would fall in a certain 'clef' and the knowledge would benefit me.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Francesca
Date: 2004-03-03 04:58
Good question Alexi!
I'm going through the transposition game right now in orchestration. We've learned how to transpose back to concert pitch (from the score) by using all sorts of clefs, including the wily mezzo-soprano clef. It certainly is a useful skill to have, but may be a bit time consuming considering how seldom one encounters G and D clarinet parts. I would suggest just learning how to transpose from one instrument's part to clarinet. I daily read from cello and bassoon music, so I'm very comfortable with that transposition. You may find clefs easier, or you may just go by interval. Either way it takes a while to learn, but it sure is fun to be able to pick up virtually any part on play along with an ensemble!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cujo
Date: 2004-03-03 05:52
Definatly would be good to learn. What if a piece of music was lost and you had to use one from another key. Or if you were playing with friends and only had a piano piece to use. Probably most important is the auditions for a better chair or joining a new orchestra and you get hit with a piece in the wrong key...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2004-03-03 06:12
There are some cases in which it coud help. Here's an example:
You want to play a viola part on B-flat clarinet. The viola part is written in alto clef. There are two ways to do this:
1. The difficult way- read the alto clef part as written, and transpose everything up a whole tone.
2. The easy way- add 2 sharps to the key signature (or subtract two flats) and read everything as if it was bass clef. For instance, the middle line on the stave in alto clef is middle C. To play concet C on B-flat clarinet, you have to play a D. The middle line of the bass clef is a D. So if you read the part as if it was written in bass clef, you won't have to do any transposing.
I suspect there are other examples of this kind of "clef-swapping". I know a few old Italian clarinetists who where taught to read all the clefs. They can transpose anything!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: obtuse
Date: 2004-03-03 09:57
Ohh, I didn't know that about the alto clef, neat! I know that with tenor clef, you can just add two sharps and pretend you're reading treble clef music (down an octave).
To read Eb music, you can add one flat and pretend you're reading bass clef (it makes sense that it's similar to the alto clef).
For music in F, you can add three sharps and pretend you're reading alto clef.
I think that's right... I don't really know if this is harder or easier than learning to transpose your 3rds and 4ths and 5ths, but it makes accidentals kinda tricky.
And playing Eb sax while using the chalameau fingerings of the clarinet (or similar) will allow you to read Bb music, and doing the same for a Bb sax will put you in F.
Again, I'm not sayin' whether this is a good way of going about transposition, but it's interesting to know, or try to figure out
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2004-03-03 14:32
Alexi -
Let's see, there's treble clef (a stylized "G" wrapped around the second line of the staff), French violin clef (with the G on the first staff line), tenor, alto, mezzo soprano and soprano clefs (with a stylized "C" on the fourth, third, second and first lines of the staff), bass and baritone clefs (with a stylized "F" on the fourth and third lines of the staff), and probably others with the three signs on the remaining staff lines.
A couple of other quick and dirty clef tricks: play bass clef on an Eb instrument and pretend it's treble clef (with the appropriate key change); play parts in F (e.g., horn, English horn) using C (upper register) fingerings in the low register.
It's not terribly difficult to learn new clefs. When I started playing bass recorder (and subbing in church choirs where the 4-part hymns have the tenor and bass parts written together in bass clef), it was sink for a couple of days and then start swimming.
You won't see the odd clefs often (unless you take up viola da gamba, where each size instrument has its own clef), and with the easy tricks for alto clef (read bass clef on a Bb instrument) and tenor clef (read down an octave and a step), you can get away with adding only bass clef.
Still, as Hindemith says in Elementary Training for Musicians http://www.kokogiak.com/amazon/results.asp?field-keywords=elementary+training+for+musicians&schMod=&typ=&sb=s , clef reading is one of a professional musician's basic tools, and it's unprofessional not to know them.
More than once, I've been able at a rehearsal to help the only violist who showed up that night, or jump over to the English horn part. That's the sort of thing that gets you hired the next time.
I don't remember where I read this, but Isaac Stern said that when David Oistrakh first came to the United States, they recorded Bach's two solo violin concertos with Eugene Ormandy and the Philadelphia Orchestra, on a famous LP. Stern had hoped to record the Bach concerto for two violins, but Oistrakh had promised to record it with his son, Igor, so they had to find something else. They rummaged through the Philadelphia Orchestra library and came up with a Vivaldi Concerto for two violins, which they recorded after a single run-through. The second solo violin part was in French violin clef, which Stern knew and could read on the spot. (It's the same as bass clef, except for the octave.)
The need to read clefs is like the key of F#. You won't see them often, but soonor or later, you'll need to be familiar with them, usually when you least expect it. You'll hurt yourself if you're not ready, and do yourself a lot of good if you are.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-03-04 07:51
F# does come in handy when playing with a guitarist who insists Concert E is the most wonderful key. Another tricky little help is due to the fact that only the Clarion register of your basic Clarinet is Bb pitch; the Chalumeau is in Eb, y'know. Learning to pretend-play (pretend you're playing the other register to use an alto sax part, for example) is a simple route to basic transposition. When you learn what to do with all that, you're in good shape.
So play around with your instrument of choice a lot more. It can be really great to discover things.
Regards,
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-04 11:25
Quote:
Another tricky little help is due to the fact that only the Clarion register of your basic Clarinet is Bb pitch; the Chalumeau is in Eb, y'know. Learning to pretend-play (pretend you're playing the other register to use an alto sax part, for example) is a simple route to basic transposition. I had to laugh when I saw this! I was thinking the exact same thing on the ride home from work today! Transposing anything between Bb and Eb is simply thinking around a register key!
Another handy thing the register key is about (slightly off topic of my original post) is scales. If you learn an E scale in the chalemeau, congratulations, you know half of the B scale (clarion!). (this is what led me to think about the above trick today on the ride home)
I'm finally starting to realize how to work around things on the clarinet mentally (bravo! Only took me 11 years of playing!) and that's why I was wondering how clef/key transpositions are interrelated.
Alexi
PS - Thanks for the indepth answers everyone.
US Army Japan Band
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-03-04 15:21
Alexi: Also don't forget that a Bb Clarinetist can read direct from a bass staff (with appropriate key sig mental gyration), as if it were a treble staff with notes in the key of Eb, using the pretend-register trick. This is especially helpful to a bass Clarinetist who must play, for example, cello music.
One more time: it's fun to play around with your Clarinet, learning little "tricks of the trade" that may be easier to grasp by oneself than to be taught.
Regards,
John
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: allencole
Date: 2004-03-04 16:07
And now, how about a fun way to practice it? Gather friends who are pursuing the same task, and read some SATB music together--hymnals have simple tunes that provide a good starting point. This doesn't help with alto and tenor clef, but it breaks the ice on transposing from concert pitch and using bass clef.
Allen Cole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
