 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-01-09 07:11
I just wanted to comment how it's funny how some ways of thinking are almost universally accepted. We always talk about the Eb/Bb fingerings (not D#/A#). I find that most people have designated certain keys with their flats or sharps (probably due to the keys that pieces are written in. Key of F has one flat so we tend to think of a Bb and not an A#).
Also, I also found it interesting that for me in particular, it's easier to sight read flats than sharps. For instance, if there was a piece that changed keys and suddenly had five flats, it'd be much easier for me to play it than if it were to have five sharps. Just an interesting observation I made and I'm sure one or two people out there might have a comment or two about it.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2004-01-09 07:27
As far as the Bb vs. A# thing, I think it just depends what you are used to. As you said, the key of F has Bb, not A# and you have to get up to 5 sharps before A# even comes into the picture (with the exception of the occassional accidental). Since we see Bb a lot more than A#, it only natural that we are more used to Bb - This is particularly obvious if you teach... It always amazes me how students can play a perfect f# but they can't play a Gb to save their lives (heehee).
In regard to the sightreading, I agree, although I'm the opposite and feel more comfortable in sharps. A band director once described sightreading as "recognizing patterns you've seen before", which I think is a good way to put it in most cases. Since I learned my scales in sharp keys (f# and c#, as opposed to Gb and Db), I tend to feel more comfortable in sharps. Also, I play with my dad alot (a classical guitarist) out of books usually for flute and guitar, which means I'm always transposed up. For whatever reason, the flute/guitar books really like the keys of D and A, so I've become very accustomed to transposing up (in my head) to 4 and 5 sharps. While I can sight-read flats pretty well, it takes me a little longer. I all depends, I suppose, on which "patterns you've seen before"....
DH
theclarinetist@yahoo.com
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-01-09 07:35
Alexi, to be concerned about something like that, you're as weird as I am. And I do refer to the fifth L4 key as a "G#/D# key", because that's what it does. If you're playing A or E, it doesn't make them flat.
With the Eb/Bb fingerings, both ways are involved. When playing a B, some things (such as R1) will make it flat, When playing an A, some other things (such as the sliver key) will raise it But referring to the fingering with four note names seems somehow tacky.
Regards,
John
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2004-01-09 13:07
"...some ways of thinking are almost universally accepted."
Or never questioned?
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2004-01-09 17:09
Well, to answer the "how come F major doesn't have A#" part of this...it's basic music theory. The key requires Anatural, so having two A's in a row (A nat then A#) doesn't follow the rest of the way major scales are formed.
Now, if you're asking "Why does music theory operate the way it does?" then that's a "whole 'nother ball o' wax!"
Katrina
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2004-01-09 17:27
TWO WHOLE STEPS ,HALF STEP, THREE WHOLE STEPS, HALF STEP... ETC....tT
David Dow
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2004-01-09 21:50
I have often thought the same logic as JMcAulay, that when pressing the key makes a note go sharp, that key should be named accordingly, i.e. D#/G#, and I sometimes use this terminology because of the power (in my particular mind) of the logic.
Looking a little closer for better understanding, the Eb/Bb example (for both side key and alt. key) seems to demonstrate that frequency of encounter of the note names dictates the standard of how we commonly refer to a note.
Let us say that position in a key signature is a fair indication of frequency of encounter, a 1 being most common. Bb and F# both get a 1. Eb and C# get a 2, etc...
The combination Eb/Bb gets a total of 3 (2+1), whereas D#/A# gets a disappointing 9 (4 + 5). Therefore we call the key Eb/Bb.
Looking at other keys, I refer to F#/C# (total 3) in preference to Gb/Db (9), following the rule. I refer to C#/G# (5) rather than Db/Ab (7)
In your example Eb/Ab gets 5 and D#/G# gets 7. Hence common usage calls it Eb/Ab.
Likewise we associate the register key with Bb (1) rather than A# (5)
It is amazing how our brains work out complicated standardising systems intuitively. Of course I am assuming, perhaps quite wrongly, that others settle on the same naming standard that I have.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2004-01-10 02:07
If you want to start getting into issues of intonation and different systems of temperament, we can even open up a whole other can of worms. An A in one context may be 440 Hz with your ensemble, though in another context that same 440 can be horribly sharp or flat. With this in mind, the spelling of a note can give contextual hints as to the chordal function and thus necessary pitch adjustments. If you are daring enough to delve into the worlds of other tuning systems (just, pythagorean, etc.) and their relationships to each other, and to keys and spellings, we can likely drag this discussion on indefinitely
Often, notes are spelled differently by the composer for the sole purpose of making it easier for the performer to read.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-01-10 02:48
Good point Alex.
It's interesting how a composer chooses certain notes in order to be easier to read. For instance, if it's a descending half step, they flat it instead of writing for instance B to A#. And of course going up is the reverse. Enharmonically it'd work either way, but it's easier for most minds to process in the same direction.
Incidentally, I noticed on Klose's Diminished Sevenths exercises that the diminished sevenths are run through one way, and then when you get to them for a second time, they use the proper enharmonics (G#'s turn into Ab's, F#'s turn into Gb's, etc). I guess to get our minds used to reading it instead of getting used to one way and then having to "figure it out" another way.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Rachel
Date: 2004-01-10 03:10
I've noticed that. I would imagine that it's because certain notes (Bb for example) are learnt before their enharmonic equivalent.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2004-01-10 03:50
Another Great Mystery: why do we not play A# Clarinets?
Regasrds,
John
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