 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ben
Date: 2003-12-20 19:26
I have noticed that many orchestral auditions require one to play Eb or Bass in addition to Bb/A clarinet for the audition. Having played some Bass and Eb, I would eventualy like to get my own instruments, learn them as well as my Bb/A, and therefore have more options available for possible work.
If I am going to wait until I can purchase a professional quality Eb or Bass, and I can aford either right now but not both, which might be the better one to get first and why?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-12-21 00:18
Ben wrote:
> Having played some Bass and Eb, I would eventualy like to get
> my own instruments, learn them as well as my Bb/A, and
> therefore have more options available for possible work.
I know many fine Eb clarinetists and exceptional bass clarinetists who have never made a dime playing either one professionally.
Sadly, every year colleges and conservatories world wide are churning out exceptional (Bb/A) classically trained clarinetists who also may never earn any money playing in a professional setting.
Always follow your dreams, but -
More options for available work? Buy a tenor saxophone and a fake book ...GBK
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Author: Ben
Date: 2003-12-21 14:06
Tenor saxophone?
Are you implying that the orchestral repertoire is larger for saxophone than Eb and bass clarinet?
Or, perhaps you are implying that there aren't many people trying to get work playing saxophone or that they are in higher demand for the work available?
If I wanted an easy time finding work and starting a career, I wouldn’t be pursuing music professionally.
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Author: LeOpus1190s
Date: 2003-12-21 18:15
I think perhaps he is saying that work is tight. It doesn't matter how good you are, work is tight. Doubling and what not opens up job opportunities. Jobs which would probably keep one from starving while in the persuit of a sucessful carreer.
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Author: ChrisC
Date: 2003-12-21 20:57
I think GBK's implication was that there's not much work available in orchestras or other "legit" settings, and that a musician is more likely to land a gig doing jazz or commercial work, in which doubling on sax is a necessity.
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Author: donald
Date: 2003-12-21 22:23
i've earned a lot more using my Eflat or (somebody elses) Bass Clarinet than on my Tenor saxophone- the advantage with these instruments is that not as many people play them well, whereas wherever you are there are guaranteed to be a gazillion tenor saxophone players (many of whom are likely to be pretty darn good.....)
E flat vrs Bass? E flat is cheaper to get hold of but less versatile- if you play Bass clarinet there is probably a more work, plus you can use it for Jazz etc, but a good horn will cost quite a bit.
Orchestras are sometimes maybe a little hesitant to use subs for E flat as they "stick out" a bit, safer to have the sub player on Bass Clarinet (that was speculation).
hope this is helpful
donald...
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-12-22 07:39
Who plays Ophicleide in the Met's production of "Benvenuto Cellini"? Now there's an instrument with no surfeit of virtuoso players.
I infer from GBK's post that a tenor sax player with a fake book is likely to take in more money on the average street corner than an Eb Clarinetist or bass Clarinetist with a good repertoire of orchestral (or any other kind of) music.
Alternatively, there are perhaps not a gazillion, but at least thousands of tenor sax players wailin' at gin mills throughout North America every weekend. They make at least some money. On the other hand, players of any size Clarinet are not in nearly such great demand, as you may have noticed. Check out how many Clarinetists apply for available seats in US symphony and opera orchestras.
To answer the initial question from the perspective of one who never played Clarinet orchestrally: Were I doing it, I'd go for an Eefer. Reason, perhaps bad, but genuine: I used to carry one on dance gigs, and audiences sometimes developed interest in hearing the thing. I also occasionally played a bass Clarinet under similar conditions, and no one seemed to care.
Regards,
John
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-12-22 13:56
I've earned a LOT more money playing tenor and bari saxes over the years than playing bass and Eb clarinets (both of which I play respectably well, I modestly submit) --- but to answer the question more directly, I think you'll find a few more doubling opportunities with bass clarinet in your repertoire than the little eefer, so I'd start first with the bass -- at least in terms of opportunities to perform with show music/pit orchestras, symphony orchestras, and jazz big bands.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-12-22 14:22
I am, basically, a soprano (A & Bb) clarinetist and play in a local professional orchestra as well as many concert bands in our area. I also play, and own, all of the saxophone and three sets of fake books, all with which I have made a considerable amount of money playing them in dance bands and combos. However, recently, the wedding band and club live band business has been "taken over" by the DJ and karioke guys and our once "busy every weekend" combo currently has no future dates. I also own an Eb, C and low C bass clarinet (my latest acquisition) and, during the past year, out of all of my instruments, my bass clarinet has gotten me the most "gigs". Owning a bass clarinet makes me "available" for symphony orchestra jobs, theater pit opportunities (currently playing tenor, Bb and bass for a musical), jazz ensemble and concert band/wind ensemble performances.
Bottom line: my Eb & C clarinets have never gotten me a job by themselves--and I do not get much chance to play them professionally. My bass clarinet has never rested since I bought it a year ago and has gotten me lots of work. My recommendation, buy a low C bass clarinet--and also follow GBKs (always excellant) advice and buy a tenor sax and fake book(s) as well to make yourself more totally marketable as a woodwind doubler.
And, David Lettermans "Top Ten" number 1 reason for buying a bass clarinet might read, "Playing it is sooo much *%#$ fun" Enjoy and Happy Holidays.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-12-22 17:21
Another implication of GBK's post is that it's not enough just to learn instruments. An awful lot of paying gigs require you to play by ear in real time, and to have a good working knowledge of your group's musical genre. I'm not talking about improvised solos. I'm talking about playing well-known parts to well-known songs. Lots of work is available to people with an intimate knowledge of these things, or who can pick them up quickly.
In many genres of pop music, knowledge of the repertoire is a least a big consideration as actual instrumental skill. (there are plenty of excellent players available)
As for success on clarinet, most of my clarinet work (including my only gig with a professional symphony orchestra) has required capable doubling on saxophone. This is where clarinet players tend to really shine. Most show books are not very demanding on sax, but the clarinet and flute parts can be blistering sometimes. All, of course, in the worst possible keys.
As for instruments, I'd say get a bass clarinet as fast as you can. I have found a lot of interesting work on bass clarinet and bari sax, and often in circumstances where many others cannot go. Recently, I've been subbing for the bassoon in a woodwind quintet. The same transposing skill lets me play in church orchestras reading bass and tenor parts directly from the hymnal. I've also used my bari sax to sub for a tuba in some dixieland and German situations.
It is a great thing to be able to play bass instruments, and there is a lot of hidden opportunity if you are a little bit creative. I bought my first bass clarinet at age 40 for use by students. Now, they can hardly get their hands on it! But look beyond the instrument itself. The most successful musicians are those who learn to manipulate music themselves.
Allen Cole
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2003-12-22 20:32
Normally, for someone who is an amateur/semi-pro like me, playing in community orchestras and the occasional paying pit/church/wedding/etc. job, I would recommend buying and becoming proficient on a bass before an Eb simply because there are more parts for bass than Eb. (While there are many orchestral works and musicals that call for bass clarinet but not Eb, there are relatively few that call for Eb but not bass.)
Keeping in mind that there are relatively few positions for clarinetists of any stripe in symphony orchestras, and even fewer open positions at any particular point in time, if your sole objective is to play in a professional symphony orchestra, I would say to choose the one you have the greatest interest in first. In most professional orchestras I'm aware of, the 2nd (assistant or associate principle) clarinetist (or occasionally the third clarinetist of four) is the Eb player. The fourth clarinetist (or third, if the orchestra only carries three) is the bass player. Rarely is the Eb player also the bass player. In other words, the two positions are generally mutually exclusive so you might as well start with the one you prefer (and are better at).
A quick look at the Woodwind & Brasswind's prices for Buffets suggests that a new professional Eb will run somewhere around $2,400, while a new professional bass (low C) will run around $5,700. Using eBay as a benchmark, good condition used professional Eb's tend to sell in the $1,200 - $1,600 range, used (low C) professional basses seem to run $2,500 - $3,500. I would be remiss if I didn't point out that these instruments are often being sold by young musicians who bought them as students or right after graduation only to find out they had little use for them (as GBK notes) and greater need for the money. If you buy one new and have to sell it later, you will likely take a substantial loss. If you buy a used one and later decide to sell it, you will likely come close to breaking even. Given the relative limited use, I suggest you go the used route for starters.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2003-12-22 22:05)
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