 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-08-06 21:34
Originally posted on the Yahoo Bass Clarinet BB. Reposted here for those not on that BB. Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 22:14:40 -0000
From: "utron7" <utron7@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Plastic Reeds
Boy oh Boy! I've always loved to tilt at windmills and here is a good
one. There are many areas to consider here.
1. The "cane purists", those with yards of time to fiddle, will tell
you that the only time to use, or consider using, a "plastic" reed is
when you are in the pit doubling on about three instruments and trying
to make a living and you need a good clear crisp tone at once from an
instrument you haven't touched for some 30 measures. Then, and only
then is it ok to have a "plastic" reed on your secondary (tertiary)
instrument.
2. Some "professionals" might use one but would rather their friends
don't catch them doing it. It might imply they do not know how to
properly prepare a reed.
3. Some will use them in certain circumstances, gigs in which few are
playing any attention to the music just dancing and visiting around
sucking up juice etc.
4. Others, a big group, base their dislike on "what they have heard"
but have never tried them themselves. Possible like most children's
teachers who may also sell reeds
So, with that in mind let's take a run at this.
First, the disclaimer, I am not a "professional" or even a "gifted
amateur", I just play for my own enjoyment and for a few others--a
"noodler" of little repute. Secondly, I have a corrected hearing
loss--both ears--so what I hear (looks good on the scope) may not be
what a normal hearing person hears (no comments on the "normal"
please).
I have bought and tried several brands and strengths of "non-cane"
reeds. Let's remove the term "plastic" from the discussion, in this
age it's too broad a term. I have tried most on the market. I disliked
their use on my Bb Soprano as the tone, as I perceived it, was thin
and artificial, however. I do use them on my Bass.
What do I use? Heidi said she uses a Bari H. I had tried that before
and did not care much for it. So I went back this afternoon, lined
them all up (4 Legere's 2 thru 3.5) (4 Fibracells Soft, Med-Soft,
Medium (2)) (3 Bari's Soft, Medium, Hard) along with 4 different
mpc's, a Fobes Nova, a Walter Grabner CXBB, a Anello 'OR' and a David
Spiegelthal reface #119. I used three different ligatures, a Rovner
Dark, a Rovner light, and a Peter Spriggs "Floating Rail." Discovery?
Two of those mpc's seem more "receptive" to non-cane reeds through the
break than the others. These were the Fobes and Walter Grabner's.
The placement of the reed on the rails (as to centering etc) on all is
more critical than with cane reeds. Certain ligatures worked better at
holding these reeds to the mpc. The Rovners worked best, the Peter
Spriggs seemed not to grip 'tightly' enough. This was particularly
true of the Bari's as their construction is different--having a
beveled back. This made them akward to secure properly on the face. As
this whole thing seems to be about tone, for me, the medium Fibracell,
the Bari 'H' and the Legere 3 seemed to respond best and clearest.
Keep in mind my own limitations and go spend some money trying to do
your own research for what you feel is the completion of the
ultimate--acquisition of the "perfect" non-cane reed. Hope this
helped.
Bob A
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-08-06 22:51
Has anybody who uses a plastic reed on any instrument ever stopped to listen for even a moment. There is nothing more disastrous in a saxophone section than having 1 player using an artificial reed. They are constantly out of balance, the dynamic range is stifled ie, they can't play soft and any Forte/ Piano or Sforzando sounds like a blitzkrieg. On a metal tenor saxophone mouthpiece these fibracells or whatever stick out even further. My observation of the sounds made by clarinettists using those Legere reeds is too rude to reproduce here. People that use them are not listening! When you stop listening you can't blend. I endured a couple of gigs last week with one guy who was using a fibracell on tenor and a legere on clarinet. He constantly tried to out blow the lead player, ie. me, and I and another section player ended up telling him to shut up. Go back to the real thing and stop being precious about reeds. When I use a box of Vandoren clarinet reeds I use the whole box. Just pull them out and play them and if it doesn't work after an appropriate time then toss it. Reeds are not that expensive really.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-08-06 23:12
Mark Pinner wrote:
> My observation of the sounds made by
> clarinettists using those Legere reeds is too rude to reproduce
> here. People that use them are not listening! When you stop
> listening you can't blend.
Interesting. Not true, but interesting nonetheless.
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-08-07 00:28
Mark Pinner,
I challenge you to a test of your listening powers.
If you can arrange to hear BBC radio 3, or if any of our concerts are relayed to wherever you are, or failing that we make about 10 CD's a year we could agree to use one of them, I will guarantee to use a Legere reed on sop. cl. in one piece or movement and you try to spot which one.
E-mail me if you accept and let me know how you'd rather listen.
jez
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2003-08-07 06:48
Mark Pinner, you worry me at times with your over the top statements.
I have been using a Legere on Bari for a while now and have not been told to shut up, if anything it is darker and rounder than all the cane ones I have tried. Please try to be more open, change CAN be good!
Post Edited (2003-08-07 06:49)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2003-08-07 14:52
jez,
I LOVE your challenge...of course I don't need to take it...
I play Legeres because I'm lazy...and people are always surprised when they see I'm not playing a cane reed.
So much of our tone quality is in our heads, not our equipment!
Katrina
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Author: clarinetgiggirl
Date: 2003-08-07 15:59
Is this perhaps a little like natural corks vs screw caps on wine debate?
Screw caps can be much better, but they are simply not as nice.
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-08-07 16:10
Ah, Yes! But you can get to it much quicker. And that's a good portion of the argument and, as a "varital" the 'tone' never changes.
Bob A
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-08-07 18:31
I've used plastic reeds as well as regular cane reeds interchangeably for many years. With a combination (mcp/reed) that works well for me, ease of play and controlability, I don't believe anyone can tell the difference. I agree with Kat that if you're in good shape your sound will be too.
The guy who tries to outblow you needs an attitude adjustment, not a reed change.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: Burt
Date: 2003-08-07 18:42
Plastic reeds make a great backup. Mine are Legere. Another value for me is that when I wonder if all my reeds got soft, I can pull out the plastic to use as a reference to see whether the problem is the reeds or me.
I also use plastic reeds on occasion on sax.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-08-07 20:38
Wanna bet MP has stock in the Legere works, and is just stirring interest?
Or he bought a few thousand acres of Panda campground and has some long tonnes of bamboo to unload?
*All generalisations are false*
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2003-08-16 11:33
The Legere came through in a pinch, again!! I had a major exam this week. It turned out that the room where the accompanist and I played was way too warm, no air conditioning and only a few small windows open for whatever air decided to make its way in. All of us who played in there came out drenched.
Earlier in the day I chose four cane reeds from which to make a final selection at the exam location - the one I chose in the warm-up room played bright and clear. But exam room itself was stifling, and I struggled with the cane reed. I switched to Legere to finish the exam and it performed beautifully. This is why I always have a Legere reed thrown into my clarinet case - I never leave home without it.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2003-08-16 14:35
My observations FWIW:
I tried a legere #4. It was ok, lacked the beauty of cane... BUT...if it matches well with your mpc, it is usable for selected occasions
i.e.:
If you like your present mpc/cane combo, the Legere can be used to clue you in on what the atmosphere is doing to your cane.
Also, lets say you are traveling and trying out a bunch of used clarinets in pawn shops....you can detect what is going on, since the reed is taken out of the equation.
For the amount of money that they cost, it is nice to have one tucked away for playing outside, or just in case you need one.
I would not play the Brahms sonata in public on one, however...at least not yet.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2003-08-16 19:40
So MP, - in summary - snap on a synthetic reed and one becomes unmusical both tonewise and with regard to the ensemble.
Mmmm !
Additionally, it would seem, all our training and experienced is relegated to the dustbin.
Well, for my part I've been playing bass clarinet with Legere reeds for the last 3 years. This was borne of frustration with cane bass reeds regarding huge inconsistencies, and therefore a relatively large outlay.
My playing has covered quartet playing, mixed and solo recitals and orchestral concerts. Noone apart from my clarinet colleagues know of my affinity to synthetic bass reeds (not that I'm embarrassed about it), and no big complaints have come my way. (are they all too polite I ask myself.)
Like a previous poster I did do a soprano recital with a Legere where the atmosphere was incredibly hot and dry - it saved the day.
So, just a wee plug for synthetic reeds that in the hands of some players they really do work and there is a place for them whether "up front" or " as a standby."
BTW, GBK still loving my FOF's for sop and they work beautifully in "sawn off" mode, for eefer ! Thanks for your recent report on the new style VD's.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-08-17 15:53
Hmmm.......just yesterday, I bought a new Legere, 3.5, at our local music shoppe, on a whim and without audition. And when I tried it, it really played well--I was totally surprised and delighted. The sound and response was good in all registers and I almost used it on last nights gig (pit for Jesus Christ Superstar). In fact, I think I will try it at this afternoons performance--I"ll let you know how it does. (FYI--on a Chicago Kaspar #14 and LeBlanc Concerto Bb)
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