 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: cassie
Date: 2003-06-03 19:58
Hey everyone,
This is my first post here, and it's in regard to the mouthpiece debate I saw on an earlier post. I am in search for a new mouthpiece as well, but have a more specific quality in mind. I'm a senior in college, performance major, and have been playing on a B45 since my freshman year. I have quite a strong sound and get great compliments on it, but I want to know if my mouthpiece is restricting me from an even better sound. I've been told I have a nice dark sound, which, to me, is ideal. My current setup is an R-13 (school horn), B45, Rovner dark ligature, and Mitchell Lurie Premium reeds 4 1/2. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what may improve my sound even more? It feels good to me right now, and I've tried some mpc's that I really did not like. I've always gone back to the B45. Is there something I've overlooked that may be "the one" for me? (By the way, I have only recently discovered the ML Prem reeds and I LOVE them. Only thing is, I go through them very quickly. I tried 5's but they're just too thick. They need to make a 4 3/4!! Just FYI!)
Thanks for any comments! You all seem to have intelligent remarks.
cassie
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-06-03 20:07
Cassie...You don't realize how lucky you are!!! If you (and your teacher) are happy with your sound, stick with the B45. Don't change a winning team, unless you think you'll actually enjoy the endless chase for the "ideal" mpc that so many seem to be engaged in, at potentially great expense and frustration.
Henry
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-06-03 21:09
"Is there something I've overlooked that may be "the one" for me?"
If there was, you woud have known.
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-06-03 22:33
Cassie, I have RA and I would just as soon let this group alter my medications as I would unrestrictedly accept their suggestions on my setup. Each person's choices are founded on their own body specs and are highly individual. My tone and yours are widely different (and you are very lucky). Read, absorb, consider, then modify if you feel it necessary.
Bob A
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Author: cyso_clarinetist
Date: 2003-06-04 01:18
Cassie -
I bet now that you have improved so much much from when you were a freshman. Perhaps you should try some other mouthpieces to see what may fit you better now. No mouthpiece is perfect but there are ones that can fit you better. Personally I feel vandoren makes mouthpieces that are better than the B45 consistently. The M30 and the M15 are great mouthpieces and have really started to become popular in the market. Most frequently when I come in contact with clarinet players they are using a Richard Hawkins mouthpiece. Those and Greg Smith's mouthpieces have dominated the Chicago clarinet world. Here is what works for me:
Buffet R-13 Clarinets (brannenized)
Chadash Barrels
Vandoren M30 Mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Ligature
Vandoren Reeds strength 4.0's
before this and what worked very well for me was a Richard Hawkins Mouthpiece and V12 fours.
Good luck!
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2003-06-04 07:01
Greg Smith (K) mpc
Bonade lig
Zonda / Gonzalez reeds
Buffet R13
This is my setup- a friend tried it the other day and couldn't get over how nice it was, he said he could 'play on it all day'!
Consider Greg Smith mpcs, they're VERY VERY VERY good!!!
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2003-06-04 13:20
Cassie,
I used a B45 and a Rovner Dark ligature in the past. Yes, it does have a dark sound. However, for what I'm looking for it didn't have enough warmth. After quite a bit of experimentation the setup I settled on is a Ralph Morgan RM28 mouthpiece, silver Francois Louis ligature, and Alexander Classique reeds.
In my experience a Rovner Dark ligature dampens the sound. When I realized just how much it affected my sound the Dark ligatures I used on my instruments went into the trash can. I've tried a lot of ligatures. For me, the Francois Louis ligature has worked the best for opening up my sound and giving it more richness and color (I describe it as sparkle). It made a huge difference for me. FL ligs come in silver, gold, and brass. After some experimentation I settled on silver.
As far as mouthpieces, I highly recommend Ralph Morgan. If you're able to try out a Morgan I'd suggest the RM15 (1.15 mm) model. Morgan mouthpieces are hand-made. The craftmanship that goes into each mouthpiece is exceptional. Ralph incorporates some interesting design features into his clarinet mouthpieces such as a larger A-shaped chamber, duckbill beak, and a thin beak wall. I've been entirely happy with what it's done for my sound and playing.
If I was going to suggest just one thing for you to try, I'd suggest trying a silver Francois Louis ligature on your B45. I can't help but think that you'll be amazed at the differences you'll find in your sound and overall response.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-06-04 14:19
Chicago Kaspar #14, Ithica Bay custom (w/Kaspar facing), G. Smith C-K mpcs
VanDoren Optimum lig (parallel rail insert)
V12 #3.5
LeBlanc Concerto A & Bb (currently)
R13's (real vintage) as alternates
This is what works for me, except when under the influence of "vacation chops" (which is currently the situation).
What is the perfect set-up??? Duke Ellington probably said it best, "If it sounds good, it is good." In other words, with clarinet mouthpieces one size does not fit all--if it "works for you", it is right for you.
The most influential factor in your "sound"?? Answer, your brain. In other words, your concept of what you want to sound like. No matter what mouthpiece you use, you will always return to that mental "internalized" tonal concept developed as a result of aural experiance (listening). The mouthpiece is only a "vehical" in realizing that sound, and some work better than others. You have to decide which one helps you best reproduce the sound that lives in your head.
Enjoy the search--and good luck.
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Author: wyatt
Date: 2003-06-04 14:34
if you can make it to the fest next month you can try just about every mp made at no cost to you. it will be enough to drive you crazy.
i'm pretty sure you can try every lig available.
by doing this you will have zero time to attend any of the events.a
bob gardner}ÜJ
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2003-06-04 14:36
My suggestion is to experience is to know.
1.Reed
Gonzales' Mozart reeds. I once played Vic Orivieri some twenty years ago.
I never encountered such a tremendous reed since the original owner deceased. This is its remake. There would be no other reeds made after being dried up six years.
2.Mouthepiece
When I once tried a Kasper-cicero, it opened my eyes. After I lost it with my RC, I tried Greg-Smith's mouthpieces(Chadash and Kasper styles) and a Chadash barrel. They opened my eyes again.
3.Lessen the register cork elevation to 0.65mm-1mm.
This is what I learned from Klarinet mailing. It got rid of uncomfortable subtones above the middle brake. Almost all new clarinets elevations are too large.
(I am also interested in Brannen's service to improve clarinet mechanism.
But I am afraid to ask them from overseas.)
4.Ligature
I feel Rovner ligature may deprive part of harmonics, and am using a cupper ligature not available outside of Japan. Present Bonard ligatures seem to need tools to remedy their deformation.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-06-04 14:47
Hirocshi wrote "Present Bonard ligatures seem to need tools to remedy their deformation"
Exactly the trouble with the (very excellant in other respects) Bonade ligitures. They are constantly in need of readjustment as the side bands become bent and start riding the reed rails. The VD Optimum ligature (which I use with the parallel rail insert) seems to play like a Bonade inverted lig without becoming deformed in the process.
However, I am interested in the "cupper" ligature. Could you post a pic or provide more info??
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-06-04 14:53
William wrote:
> Hirocshi wrote "Present Bonard ligatures seem to need tools to
> remedy their deformation"
Please be advised that Hiroshi is not a native English speaker, so "correcting" his very lucid albeit slightly mispelled English means either:
1) You didn't realize that Hiroshi is not a native speaker and really think that Bonard is a different manufacturer and cupper is some new material
or
2) Something worse.
I'm assuming 1), and Hiroshi means Bonade and copper.
Please be flexible in your reading of posts written by people whose native language is different than English.
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Author: cassie
Date: 2003-06-04 15:05
Wyatt--what fest is next month and where? I'm in Virginia.
cassie
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-06-04 15:08
Hiroshi said:
"3.Lessen the register cork elevation to 0.65mm-1mm.
This is what I learned from Klarinet mailing. It got rid of uncomfortable subtones above the middle brake. Almost all new clarinets elevations are too large."
Yes! This is a very good tip . . . I recently stuck a rolled-up piece of tape under the bottom of my register key so that the cork doesn't come up as far off of the hole. I'm not sure exactly how far off it comes now, but it eliminated subtones when tonguing the upper clarion notes and evened out the sound of the notes through the entire upper register. I guess I should go to the shop and have a little extra felt or cork added eventually . . . 
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Author: cassie
Date: 2003-06-04 15:21
By the way, thanks everyone for your suggestions, I really appreciate them. I am going to look into the seemingly-popular Greg Smith mpc and also the Francois Louis ligature. I believe my instructor uses that lig (I feel stupid cuz I should know, but I really can't remember at the moment).
I'm really excited about exploring my sound this summer. How well I progress these next 2 semesters will determine whether or not I go for grad school. I have a hard time staying motivated--just knowing that there are SO many exceptional clarinet players out there who started playing way before me is kind of disheartening--makes me feel like I'm at a disadvantage, you know? I do think I'm at a good place to be as a senior performance major, but not as good as a lot of others. I guess all I can really do is just keep playing.
cassie
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Author: William
Date: 2003-06-04 15:27
Mark--I would like everyone to know that I am totally aware of Hiroshi's Japanese ethnicticity and that my posting, in response to his, was in NO WAY an attempt in spelling correction, but rather an affirmation of his "deformation" observation. As for "cupper", quite often proper names are not capitolized even by our "native english" posters, so I did not assume a mispelling of the metal, but rather a neglected capitalization of a trade name, Cupper.
However, I can understand how my posting may have been misunderstood and why we all should be always careful in how we word our commentaries so as not to offend. So to Hiroshi, if my posting was offensive, my applogies. The fact is, I always find your postings to be interesting and sincere.
(and I would like more info on that ligature which is available only in Japan)
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Author: wyatt
Date: 2003-06-04 15:54
cassis: I'm refering to the Clarinetfest that will be held in Salt Lake City from July 9th to the 13th. there will be over 1000 clarinet players (want a be) there.
in addition there will be mp makers, barrel maker, and every major brand of horns there.
Hope you can make it.r
bob gardner}ÜJ
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-06-04 16:08
William wrote:
> Mark--I would like everyone to know that I am totally aware of
> Hiroshi's Japanese ethnicticity and that my posting, in
> response to his, was in NO WAY an attempt in spelling
> correction, but rather an affirmation of his "deformation"
> observation.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Author: cassie
Date: 2003-06-04 16:14
Yes, I went to the website that Mark posted earlier and read about it. I wasn't sure if you were speaking of another festival or that one, so I thought I'd ask.
But yeah: full-time student + 2 part-time jobs + husband (also FT student and part-time job) = broke!
I'd love to go though!
cassie
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2003-06-04 16:48
Mark --
I sense a hot button issue here for you, and although William has already spoken for himself, I would like to say in his defense that personally I did not read his post as a correction of Hiroshi's English. I read it as he says he meant it: that he was confirming Hiroshi's observations about the Bonade and recommending the Optimum as a better alternative. I saw the Bonade spelling correction as simply a part of that statement, and in any case it followed the rules for such corrections (irrespective of the poster's native tongue) as set forth in the BB Rules section.
I, too, was confused about "cupper," thinking, as William did, that it was a brand name that he (and I) had never heard of. It was only after your mention of copper that I remembered Hiroshi having written before about his copper ligature.
I enjoy both William's and Hiroshi's postings. Both bring their unique, thoughtful perspectives to this forum. (I especially enjoy Hiroshi's broader philosophical views that often move us beyond our sometimes too narrow focus on clarinets.) And I consider both to be on the polite (as opposed to the combative/correcting) end of the poster spectrum. (Well, maybe not William, so much. ;+))))) )
Todd W.
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-06-04 21:07
" Francois Louis ligature." I looked at the pictures of this lig and I cannot see much mechanical differences from those of the Peter Sprigs 'Floating Rail". Of course I am not mechanically inclined and have only used the Peter Sprigs (on my Bass Clarinet). How do these two differ in what they purport to do--allow the reed to vibrate freely?
Bob A
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-06-05 14:12
If I compare notes to my violin and cello freinds in the orchestra, I would think they would really wonder at some of the logic of the comments made above.
Brand names like Stradivarius violins cannot be purchased so easily. I think clarinet players can take a bit more thought from the way players choose their respective instruments.
The main goal is to achieve a beautiful voice on the instrument. Its about sometimes having to wait for the ideal clarinet to come along. My first set of clarinets in the early 80s were a set of mismatched and poor qulaity R13s. Orchestral playing on them was a chore.
I always wanted a better sound and was quite unhappy in those days with the tone of the Bb clarinet I had especially....with some guidance from Harold Wright I settled on a set of Selmer Recital models which play magnificently for me.....
Brand names aside I think the best thing I did was work from within the context of finding with the help of Mr. Wright the set up which allowed me to express myself with the greatest ease. This individual voice on the clarinet is something the finest players seek to achieve.
Playing about 50 concerts a YEAR and also doing recordings to boot I know that players have to find a reliable means of sounding and playing the best they can at all times. Just saying a brand this or brand that is going to do it forever is a blanket statement. Some of the finests string players wait years until they have found the instrument that will help them best achieve their "voice". Musically this is very important....
Whether or not the reed or piece or model they play does this is an area the player and the teacher can best assess....having chose instruments for students and colleagues for years I can honestly say not all Fords are the same and nether are all houses.
Recently I tried a batch of R13s only to send them back. I was not too impressed by some of the things I heard....then a used one came along which I liked and so did my student. We then decided this was the one and paid considerably less.
Are the R13s the best? Well I think this is such a subjective area....its like saying which is better Guaneri or Strads....obviously individuality is a very important quirk in any fine instrument. Differerent players react differently to different designs...I know this not only from listening but watching what the student is doing with the instrument....
I also know that if I borrowed someones clarinet for a symphony concert it would be a pretty rough experience. No one may notice it, but what occurs is the instrument acts and reacts different from what I have become accustomed to doing....
The real trick is also to patient and practical enough to know when and what works best for oneself....too often I hear the same ranting this is best blah blah....then I hear this person struggle to play the simplest of scales and realize they have not invested enough practice to make a judgement so far reaching.....
I have run into some clarinets that so good and so ancient I was amazed...I have had the pleasure of also playing R13s that colleagues own that I thought were way better than mine only to realize that my clarinet reacts and plays like I do....one is easily seduced by the new factor as well.
However, my tuning is so good on my current set I have found this hard to replicate on recent incarnations of the same brand model even...
The real test is to know you sound your best, and this is where guidance and practicality must rule...players should also realize that in some ways wind people are so lucky to have choices. Violin players suffer far worse from the vagaries of instrument market, and sometimes never fined the one instrument.
Brand names are brand names....finding your voice is the key....
David L. Dow
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Author: Stéphane
Date: 2003-06-05 22:41
By the way, Philippe "Cupper" is an excellent French clarinetist, for one sec, I thought he too got into the lig business...
Stéphane.
After you've heard a work by Mozart, the silence that follows, this is still by Mozart.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-06-06 06:27
Cassie, I have to congratulate you for perfecting your sound using a stock mouthpiece in this age of customized everything. I used a B45 and also a B46 for years after tiring of a Hite which was very nice but not very flexible. I have currently found bliss with the Portnoy BP02, whose tip opening is comparable to the B45, but with a shorter facing. Great throat tones.
Zonda #4 reeds, a Vandoren Optimum ligature, and a standard ClickBarrel complete the set.
BTW, if you come to grad school at VCU, Dr. West will undoubtedly introduce you to the world of Pyne mouthpieces & barrels. Most local players whose sounds I enjoy are using this brand.
Allen Cole
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2003-06-06 07:23
Cassie!! No fear, next year Fest will be at Maryland!! Go Terps!
Also, I used the same exact set-up you do when I was in high school, but my teacher hated the MLs, he said they were too "studentish". So he got me started on VanDoren V12s (which many ppl hate) and I got a great sound! Sometimes it is hard to find a good one out of the box, but a lil reed rush helps.
I had the B45 with a Bay medium lig, ML premiums, and an R13.
Now I am using my R13 with a M13 lyre88, Bay medium, Vandoren V12(3.5) or regulars (4) and Clark Fobes barrel.
But, my teacher also suggests not to mess up your setup if you are happy with what you have. I am always trying to find my ideal setup. :(
Come to MD for Clarinetfest 2004!
--Contragirl
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Author: cassie
Date: 2003-06-06 13:33
Yea, MUCH closer to home!! I've always wanted to go, I felt "out of the loop" cuz I figured everybody who's anybody goes to it. And I want to try out stuff, too! Hopefully, though, I will have found something I really like by then. But I'll never stop "window shopping" even if I do find a setup that works. But thanks for the info, I'm glad to know I will be able to go next year! I love road trips!!
Oh (to allencole), and I have read a lot about pyne--I was actually looking into the clarion pyne wound ligatures. I heard those were as close to a "dark" sound as one may get, but I wasn't sure about it. And I haven't found anyone around here who has one for me to try. So, thus the search continues...
But I feel a little more knowledgeable now after poking around here the past week!
cassie
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2003-06-07 18:53
I use a hand-made gold plated cupper ligature made by a Japanese shop called Ishimori. This is the URL in Japanese but you can see the pictures.
http://www.ishimori-co.com/Products/WS.html
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