 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-06-06 17:40
The mention of using hot glue in the thread about the cork pads made me think to put this up here . . . Also, since this is a fairly common problem, hopefully someone can benefit from this!
The felt on my bridge key was always falling off, and finally it just wouldn't stick back on anymore. I tried nail polish, I tried hot gluing it back on, etc., but it still kept falling off. Finally, I had the idea to sand the metal ever so slightly with a smoother sandpaper, then apply a blob of hot glue and file it down to size. I've had it this way for quite some time now, and it hasn't budged!  Also, I don't think I'll have to worry about the compression/slipping issue that doesn't make the 1/1 fingering sound as it should.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-06-06 17:45
Sounds reasonable to me. I assume the plating on the bridge was just too slippery
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-06-06 18:33
Now, just clip the upper wings of your bridge key (à la Hans Moennig, Bob Schmidt and others) to make the key action of your R-13 lighter and faster ...GBK (whose Buffets still have all their "wings")
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Author: cassie
Date: 2003-06-06 18:35
Hold on, hold on, hold on. What do you mean by "clip their wings"? And how does this make the key action "faster and lighter"?
cassie
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-06-06 19:41
One of the modifications that Hans Moennig would often make to R-13's was to clip the wings off the upper bridge key. He apparently felt that the extra weight was unnecessary. (Remember that the Buffets in the pre R-13 era had no wings on the bridge key). Perhaps this (the addition of the wings on R-13's) was a change that Moennig disagreed with. Bob Schmidt's "A Clarinetist's Notebook - Vol 1: Care & Repair" also recommends removing the wings for a lighter and faster action (?).
The next time you have a rapid passage that is giving you trouble, now you can blame it on the extra weight from the wings of your bridge key...GBK
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-06-06 19:54
GBK wrote: "The next time you have a rapid passage that is giving you trouble, now you can blame it on the extra weight from the wings of your bridge key."
![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) I like that one . . . It's right up there w/ "I'm not nervous, I'm playing with 'hand vibrato.'"
What's the original purpose of the wings, anyway? To allow for greater ease of assembly or greater freedom in the possible ways you can rotate the clarinet at its middle and still have it play?
-Benni (whose Selmer and Vito both have their wings, but slightly different shaped ones)
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Author: cassie
Date: 2003-06-06 20:15
So I can just...clip them off? What would you recommend using to cut them? If you can't tell, I'm taken with this because I've never heard of it. And a lot of people do this? Interesting...
I can't do it, though, I'm playing on a school horn.
cassie
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-06-06 20:19
cassie wrote:
> And a lot of people do this?
> Interesting...
No. Few, if any people do. GBK is having a bit of fun ... Moennig and a few others might do it, but blaming a lack of speed on the bridge wings is tantamount to my blaming the slow acceleration on my car to heavy tires.
I've got a 90HP diesel ...
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-06-06 21:17
Moennig felt that the wings of the bridge key added dead weight to that delicate key. He felt that "the lighter the key, the less spring tension required," thus giving the player better mechanical action.
Sort of like corking your bat in baseball.
...GBK (whose left hand is real strong from 40 years of playing with the wings still on the bridge key)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-06-06 21:19
Some say "necessity is the mother of invention". Was it just in the 1940's [my 30's Selmer FB is without ears/wings] when our major makers realized that bent/broken-off bridge keys could be prevented by this simple addition? I broke one myself early, and quickly adopted a left-hand, palm up for U J, assembly procedure. I carry it over to assemble my '70's bass cl UJ to LJ [NO EARS!] carefully , with its TWO bridges. An additional benefit is in the correct/consistent orientation of the joints, partic. for those with artic. C#/G# and a hole in the tenon! These mechanics are so simple, I apologise for going on here, but I dont recall their being mentioned above. Take care! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-06-06 21:49
GBK you are "on the ball". Sammy must have oiled the bore too much.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-06-06 23:07
I think Hans was a bit oiled when he came up with the idea if, in fact, the story is true ... "Becaus, ve haf alvays dun it zat vay...(?)" ![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: Peter Spriggs
Date: 2003-06-07 00:38
GBK,-- I don't know where you got the idea that Hans Moennig clipped the wings off the bridge key to make it lighter. Of course it does make it lighter, but imperceptibly so! The main reason he did it was to give no doubt as to when the two parts were properly lined up. At least that is what he told me when I was studying with him in the 70s and I still agree today, although I don't bother anymore, I just put on glasses to be more precise..
I have just taken out my copy of "A Clarinetist's Notebook" by Robert Schmidt. He was also a student of Hand Moennig and Anthony Gigliotti like myself and he does not say in the book that he does this to lighten the keys. While I studied with Moennig I took many notes, so did Bob Schmidt. He wrote a book based on his notes. I refer to mine from time to time. Bob's book is not based on Bobs thoughts but on the thoughts of the Maestro.
I'm not fussy about people making fun of someone whom I and many others consider to have been " The Godfather of all Woodwind Repair". He was an exceptionally knowledgeable, creative, kind, helpful and RESPECTED person. Those that never got to know him missed an unsurpassed opportunity. Of course many reading this were not even born before he died! --Peter
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2003-06-07 02:05
You are all skirting the real issue here...air resistance! Those wings have to come off to cut down on air resistance to allow you to finger faster. In fact grinding them off should stop you clarinet from blowing out of your hands whenever you play outdoors... I just hate it when that happens!
TH
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-06-07 02:24
There are many sides to an issue. Clipping the wings makes the weight distribution about the hinge less balanced. The ideal would be if the spring has a role of rotating a key which has no effective weight. When the weight is unbalanced, then the spring not only rotates the key, but also has to lift the weight. Hence, if the wings are clipped, and the less balanced state means the spring has to do more actual lifting, then the spring will need to be stronger. Do we really want to fight a stronger spring.
What Peter Spriggs wrote is believable. The rest of this thread on wing clipping is pretty far fetched!
Re glue: Nail polish is a poor glue (except perhaps when both surfaces are rigid and porous, such as balsa wood), especially if there is the slightest trace of moist or oily contaminant on the surface. Glue gun glue also copes poorly with contaminants, but also adheres unreliable to 'cold' (i.e. heat draining) smooth surfaces such as unheated metal, and polished surfaces. This is why I use contact glue. For felt I pre-seal the surface with thixotropic (paste-like) contact adhesive to stop the adhesive soaking in.
Post Edited (2003-06-07 02:25)
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-06-07 03:40
Nail Polish may make poor glue, but it certainly has its use re the bridge key. In order to ensure that the bridge key mechanism is precisely matched each time you assemble your instrument, all you need to do is align it with great care just one time, then paint large arrows on the backs of each joint with fingernail polish (each pointing toward the other) so that you can't miss in the future.
No grinding, clipping, or filing required, and the nail polish will stay on there just about forever. And hey, who'll see it? After all, those arrows will be just above your R thumb, and nobody needs to see back there, or even *can*. Of course, that's true only unless you are so proud of your handiwork, you just can't restrsin yourself from showing it off. Neat idea, eh?
Regards,
John
who can hardly wait to find out who does it first
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-06-07 04:40
For those with back issues of The Clarinet magazine, check Volume 8 No.3, pages 46-48. The article entitled "A Better Bridge" by Robert Schmidt.
I call your attention to photographs #7 and #8. Bob Schmidt writes:
"Photo 7 shows me clipping the "wings" on the Buffet upper bridge key. This gives a lighter key action."
"After the wings are clipped, the rough edges should be filed away (Photo 8) Use an old file as the nickel plating is very hard and can ruin a new file..."
I don't make this stuff up....GBK
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-06-07 15:04
The submissions to this post should be read without taking offense at some attempts to offer a humourous side to the subject. Being able to "offset" perfect alignment with the wings does have some advantages at times. And they do help incautious assemblers avoid bending parts. I could believe that some spring strengths or adjustments could be so delicate that the wing weight could be a factor to consider.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2003-06-07 18:50
BobD, Exactly! Mr. Moennig would enlarge each spring cradle to reduce friction from the spring's contact point. Each spring would be altered in curvature to maximize its leverage and improve the key fulcrum. Mr. Moennig believed that mechanical limitations of the newer shorter needle springs are a major factor in the efficiency of the key action. In addition to making the springs longer he also changed them in relationship to the key fulcrum. The closer the spring cradle was to the key tube the less resistance there was in the mechanical action. It's a logical conclusion that Mr. Moennig would cut the wings for smoother action. He did not want the spring to push all this extra weight.
Vytas Krass
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