 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ctt489
Date: 2003-03-04 04:15
Has anyone removed the center bar on the inverted Bonade ligature?
I'm curious about doing it myself. What are some results? How did you remove it? I've included a picture of one done on sale at ebay (24k gold).
[Sorry. Unless you own the picture or got permission you can't post it here - pictures on eBay are property of the sellers (unless they "borrowed" them from someone else - more than once I've seen the same picture used for multiple clarinets ...) Mark C.]
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2003-03-04 13:00
Hi ctt489:
Someone's done a very nice job of altering the classic Bonade.
Just two points:
1) The gold plating deadens the sound a bit too much, try silver plating
2) The remaining "rails" on the Bonade must be absolutely flat, so the ligature does not wobble on the reed, even when tightened.
Many local players here in NYC have, or have had, a Bonade like the one on eBay, and they work great!
Good luck
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-03-04 13:07
A jeweler's saw would seem to be the appropriate "hacksaw", but, "What's the point?"
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-03-04 13:29
I believe that Marcellus experimented with this modification to the Bonade. I believe that the idea is to reduce the mass in contact with the reed, therefore increasing vibrations.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2003-03-04 14:20
I have two stock inverted Bonade ligatures in my case right now. I have bent them so that only the rails can touch the reed. They play nice, but I am currently using string which plays nicer (the Bonades are in there for back-up... I guess in case the string's batteries wear out!).
This is an interesting thread, I've not thought of trimming out this part of the ligature before. I will do that to one of them tonight and then report back to y'all.
Removing the rails should be very easy, you can do it with a saw as mentioned, an abrasive disc, a carbide bit in a Dremel tool, a mill bastard file, lots of ways. I think I will take mine to my office and trim it down with a tungsten carbide 577 dental burr in a 400,000 rpm water cooled pneumatic handpiece... or maybe use my rusty old diagonal wire cutter.
ctt489, are you sure that is gold? I have two of these in that color for my saxophones and they are brass. They sell for about $8-$12... you don't get gold for that price. I guess they could plate them with gold, but what's the point... I bet that won't increase the sound quality as much as it will the price!
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Author: Webmaster
Date: 2003-03-04 14:33
Not only is it overpriced, the "hack" job wasn't done very well. Crooked, and no filing to smooth down the edges. A C- or D in shop class for sure.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-03-04 14:51
Ken Shaw wrote:
> Looks like it was done at your ISP (speakeasy.net)
Took a minute for me to "get it" ![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
I'm surprised by the seller ... the S & H cost is closer to the value of the lig (IMNSHO). A new Bonade is about $16. 10 minutes with a jeweler's saw (and file!). A home gold plating kit (enough for a lot of ligatures): $38
Post Edited (2003-03-04 16:00)
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-03-04 16:02
Well, the "stunning 24kt gold" stunned me so much, I barely noticed how much it "inhanced" the sound. Let's see... "inhanced" would be the opposite of "outhanced," right?
Regards,
John
wondering about nailing a reed to a wood MP
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Author: PJ
Date: 2003-03-04 23:16
Phil Muncy will alter any new Bonade Ligature (regular or inverted) for you for a small fee plus the cost of the ligature. Pam told me that cutting out the center of the inverted was one of the most popluar requests from customers and that it got great results.
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Author: PJ
Date: 2003-03-04 23:34
BTW, I would like to note that you can buy this ligature brand new, have it gold plated AND have the center cut out for MUCH less than that price. I've checked on it myself.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2003-03-05 05:03
Okay, I did what I threatened this morning. I cut down one of my Bonades and then play tested the Stock Bonade, the cut-down Bonade, and string. When you read this please note that I bend up my Bonades so that only the rails touch the reed. The Bonade plays just as poorly as a generic metal ligature for me when it is allowed to touch the edges of the reeds.
<center><img src="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/thorlick/images/ligs.jpg" border="6"></center>
On the left is a photo I took this morning showing the two bent up ligatures and my string ligature. On the right is the modified legature on my Bb clarinet next to the bent up, but otherwise stock, Bonade.
Here is what I found: The stock Bonade plays nicely' a little brighter than the string ligature. Ease of blowing is the same on the two ligatures. There is only a little difference between the two and the improvement in sound with the string is probably outweighed by the ease of use of the Screws on the Bonade. The cut down ligature was then tested. It plays slightly better than the non-cut stock ligature. It has the feel and darn near the sound of the string ligature. The biggest difference between the cut and stock Bonades is that the cut one goes over the break just a little easier than the stock one... and as easily as the string.
Note that I cut this down in about 3 minutes at my office. I started with that 557 carbide bur, but it broke, so I finished with a tapered diamond bur rather than risk another $0.99 bur. I haven't looked at the discussed ligature on e-Bay, but if it is priced over $12 and you want to buy at that price then I have some empty cork grease tubes you would love to buy!
Conclusions: I really like all three. All three are good enough to use. The string costs less than $1 but takes about 45 seconds to tie. The Bonades cost me around $9 and take about 5 seconds to place. The sound is virtually the same for all with the string being a bit better... but I am not sure a listener could tell the difference.
Lest it be said that I would find all ligatures the same, I have a handful of other ligatures... none of which I will use in public, none of them compare in playability or sound to the three pictured above.
Disclaimer: I have no financial tie to Bonade or any marketer of his ligatures, nor do I have any fincial ties to string (pun intended). My retirement portfolio is devoid of ligature and string stocks.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2003-03-05 05:05
I'm new to this format, please excuse the double post!
Post Edited (2003-03-05 07:00)
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2003-03-05 05:07
Okay, I did what I threatened this morning. I cut down one of my Bonades and then play tested the Stock Bonade, the cut-down Bonade, and string. When you read this please note that I bend up my Bonades so that only the rails touch the reed. The Bonade plays just as poorly as a generic metal ligature for me when it is allowed to touch the edges of the reeds.
{ see the photo at http://pages.sbcglobal.net/thorlick/images/ligs.jpg }
In the photo on the left are the two bent up ligatures and my string ligature. On the right is the modified legature on my Bb clarinet next to the bent up, but otherwise stock, Bonade.
Here is what I found: The stock Bonade plays nicely' a little brighter than the string ligature. Ease of blowing is the same on the two ligatures. There is only a little difference between the two and the improvement in sound with the string is probably outweighed by the ease of use of the Screws on the Bonade. The cut down ligature was then tested. It plays slightly better than the non-cut stock ligature. It has the feel and darn near the sound of the string ligature. The biggest difference between the cut and stock Bonades is that the cut one goes over the break just a little easier than the stock one... and as easily as the string.
Note that I cut this down in about 3 minutes at my office. I started with that 557 carbide bur, but it broke, so I finished with a tapered diamond bur rather than risk another $0.99 bur. I haven't looked at the discussed ligature on e-Bay, but if it is priced over $12 and you want to buy at that price then I have some empty cork grease tubes you would love to buy!
Conclusions: I really like all three. All three are good enough to use. The string costs less than $1 but takes about 45 seconds to tie. The Bonades cost me around $9 and take about 5 seconds to place. The sound is virtually the same for all with the string being a bit better... but I am not sure a listener could tell the difference.
Lest it be said that I would find all ligatures the same, I have a handful of other ligatures... none of which I will use in public, none of them compare in playability or sound to the three pictured above.
Post Edited (2003-03-05 06:12)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-03-05 13:58
Bravo, Terry. It's always nice to see a man playing with his toys.
Seriously, this is a great service, to see what actually happens rather than just thinking and guessing.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-03-05 16:57
Actually, I've used an inverted Bonade with the middle removed (5-10 minutes with a small hacksaw blade and a file) for a number of years.
There is, at least to my ears (which are not totally useless, yet), a small but appreciable difference. I don't think it is something I am intentionally trying to find.
After playing on the "modified" Bonade and then going back to compare it to the regular inverted Bonade the response does not seem the same. I would (for lack of better terminology) use the term "freer" to describe the modified ligature.
I know that terms like "light" and "dark", "covered" and "free blowing" are subjective, but the best way to describe the difference is the feeling I get between playing a "regualar ligature" and then playing a Rovner (which I also like in certain circumstances).
Whether these differences are as audible to the listener, I don't know.
Reading the above posts, and seeing that others use, or have used (including Marcellus?), this modification makes me feel that I have not lost all sense of reality, eventhough I know I need to get outdoors more.
Well, not yet, anyway....GBK
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-03-07 04:49
Hi,
I have two suggestions that go along with the thread but take a different tack. I modified a Gigliotti but using a Dremel to remove the center part of the two rails that touch the reed. Excellent results. Much easier to work with plastic.
I also have a Portnoy ligature (like the one you can buy from the same seller for a pretty steep price). That ligature has contact just at the 4 corners and plays very nicely and would seem to be about the same as the modified Bonade. Trying to find one might be tough though.
HRL
Post Edited (2005-07-13 13:56)
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