 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: javier garcia
Date: 2002-09-10 13:26
I've played trumpet for a while, only for fun. I've noticed that each note is made by your lips, and the horns amplifies it. When you attack the note, you have to do it exactly in tune to get it, so I ask myself if the professional players develop perfect pitch. If not, how do they do?
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2002-09-10 14:31
With my bad ears I'm the last one you would expect to respond---but, having said that, I think "perfect" pitch is something you are either born with, or quickly attain. Didn't we think along these lines the lst time we chewed this thread? It does not have to apply to "players", some listeners always grimmace when I play, and my cat always went crazy.
Bob A
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Author: William
Date: 2002-09-10 14:57
The ability brass players have for pitch reproduction via their lip buzz is probably the same ability most people have to reproduce any given pitch imagined or "heard in their heads" via vacalization (singing) or, more mysterious, via whistling. As a personal example, I can immediantly whistle (or sing) any note that I imagine or hear externally with almost 100% accuracy because the physical responses to produce those pitches have somehow been memorized. But to associate a label (name) with that percieved sound--even though I can whistle or sing it--envolves a mental connection that my brain cannot perform accurately. But that is an ability that "perfect pitch" individuals brains have--for whatever the specific neurological cognitative process required, learned or "God given."
Bottom line: I think that you can learn to "physically" determine the amount of tension you need in your lips to buzz any given perceived pitch, even though you may not be able to accually call it by name--via the "perfect pitch" phenomonum. The learning process similar to childhood whistling and singing activities and is called "practice."
Perhaps some more knowlegable neurologists on this board can give a more credable and accurate explanation of the "perfect pitch" ability that some people seem to be "born with."
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-09-10 16:41
In April of this year, I posted a link to a page describing a study being done at the University of California at San Francisco regarding Perfect (or Absolute) Pitch. I don't know if their test to determine if you have Perfect Pitch is still working, but the URL is http://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/ppstudy.html.
William, your comments re vocalizing and whistling remind me of someone long ago who could hum and whistle duets. That is an ability I've tried (half-heartedly) to cultivate with no success at all. Humming and whistling at the same time, no problem. But I can hardly get both of them on the same pitch, much less in harmony. Can any of the BB readers do this? By the way, I have tried humming while playing the Clarinet to produce a "self-duet," and that isn't hard at all for me. But it sure sounds bizarre, especially because of the beat notes produced. Try that for something different on a lazy late summer afternoon. For those in Northern temperate regions, at least.
As far as brass players and lip buzzing are concerned, Perfect Pitch is not necessary, just as it is not needed to sing or whistle. Good *Relative* Pitch is essential, however. This is the ability to produce accurately the pitch of C, for example, given a reference pitch such as A.
Regards,
John
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-09-10 17:13
For brass players, as for singers, it's muscle memory. You learn a certain "feel" and reproduce it when you see a note at a particular pitch. That doesn't require perfect pitch. It's the same as a violinist, on a fingerboard without frets, knowing where a finger goes.
I was at a rehearsal where a professional singer was working on Mozart songs with a fortepiano pitched at A-427 (a plausible approximation of pitch at Mozart's time, and 1/4 step below A-440). She had terrible trouble and said that her vocal cords were trained to take particular positions corresponding to half-steps. She had no trouble 1/2 step down at A-415, but the quarter-step notes were all "in the cracks," where she had never sung before, and it drove her crazy.
Having perfect pitch in a situation like that is a hindrance. I have a recorder with an alternate joint that plays at A-406, 3/4 of a step below A-440. A friend who has perfect pitch, and has no trouble at A-415 or A-392 (a whole step down), couldn't bear to play the instrument at 406. I have absolutely no hint of perfect pitch and am very happy at 406.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-09-10 20:28
Ken, I agree that Perfect Pitch could be an awful curse. I once read of a man who had Perfect Pitch, but he developed his ability on an old piano at home that was tuned a half-step flat. As you would imagine, he had to "transpose" everything in his head for years until he re-educated himself. Thanks for your post; I had never considered the quarter-tone problem.
Regards,
John
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Author: Willie
Date: 2002-09-11 00:03
After fooling around with various brass instruments for awhile to familiarize myself with them (helpful in doing arrangements), the one that totally baffles me is the French horn. Your "pitch lips" must be right on when playing this beast. Our hornist took mine and played the entire scale range (for double horn) and only had to use one valve for one note. He said the valves just make it a little easier as there are some people out there who can still play a "natural horn" that has no valves at all. When you read a note on the page you must know the pitch and play it just as a vocalist would sing it.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-09-11 01:04
Perfect pitch - you're either born with it or you're not. Don't worry if you don't "have it" because those of us with it refer to it as "perfect bitch".
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-09-11 01:18
diz wrote:
>
> Perfect pitch - you're either born with it or you're not.
Not true according to some studies.
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Author: javier garcia
Date: 2002-09-11 02:21
Thanks, I know that perfect pitch is a "natural gift" in almost all cases. But I had trouble to produce a specific tone on the trumpet after some minutes without playing. So I asked myself how brass players do when they have to wait a lot of measures before playing again. I understand as some of you say, that a "musculature memory" works for it. Sure, a good relative pitch helps, as when I played and I had the tone on my brain, I could reproduce it again without problem (except for my basic trumpet level)
Thanks again
Javier
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2002-09-11 02:21
Diz... I agree wholeheartedly with your second statement!
Willie... I played a French Horn solo once in band, and for one concert just for fun I did that trick, switching between the two sections and ignoring the three main valves. It was a mental workout, and I sweated a little, but it sounded just as good as the original. You're right; French Horn is a beast that even though I play I STILL don't quite understand.
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Author: Stéphane
Date: 2002-09-11 19:45
Just for the anecdote, my teacher told me that story about that guy who was gifted (cursed?) with perfect pitch: he just couldn't make it with transposing instruments such as our beloved Bb. He just couldn't stand reading a note and hearing it one tone lower.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-09-12 00:31
Stephane - as someone with perfect pitch - playing the clarinet has never bothered me at all. It's all relative (to me at least).
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Author: Allie
Date: 2002-11-28 12:50
I couldn't let this one pass without commenting!!
My Dad has perfect pitch and he was born with it. My four-year-old brother has had no "Musical training" but he is already showing signs of having it. When we teach him a new song
he remembers the key we sing it in. Sometimes we tease him then by changing keys. It drives him absolutely bonkers!! But when we bring it back to where he's used to it he will settle down right away.
It really cool for us that Dad has it. When we are going to sing he will just give us the right key and away we go. But transposing does bother him. He can do it just fine, but doesn't like it because he's seeing a note and knowing in his head what it sounds like, while having to play another one.
I'm not thoroughly convinced that it can be aquired through training. You can cultivate a pretty good relitive pitch, but I'm not convinced you can attain perfect pitch if you haven't been born with this gift.
Good luck with your horn playing!!
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