 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2002-11-20 04:53
I have a Patricola Eb soprano I'm considering buying. It plays pretty well with surprisingly good intonation and comfortable keywork. But I'm getting some resistance in the low clarion register. Noticeably more than on my cheapo plastic Vito. Could be some leaks somewhere. But I'm wondering if it could also be the length of the register key tube. This tube is much longer than the one on my Vito (and on all my other clarinets) extending about half-way through the bore. Does this sound right? And could this have an effect on the resistance in the clarion register? And if so is this something that can be fixed? Or should I send this horn back and try some others?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2002-11-20 05:05
My register tube also reaches halfway into the bore but it doesn't make the resistance any harder on my clarinet. So I think that may not be your problem. There's one for the process of elimination . . .
Alexi
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2002-11-20 05:53
Thanks. My tech did a quick suction test on it today and said he thought it had some leaks, which I know can increase resistance, especially in the first few notes over the break. But I'm wondering if Patricolas are intrinsically more resistant than other models, or if this particular instrument just happens to be a little more resistant, or if I had some work done on it would it would play as easy as pie. I think I have about a week to decide if I want to keep it which doesn't give me much time to get it worked on (my tech is booked up for a couple of weeks for anything other than a quick adjustment). I'd hate to send a horn back that is just a little work away from being a great horn but I don't want to end up with a horn that just doesn't play the way I think it should. My Vito plays effortlessly over the break and I would think a Patricola (a pro-level horn) should too.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2002-11-20 09:10
In my expesrience almost all clarinets need atention when they are straight from the factory. A very common fault is leaks under the pads that are normally open, i.e. 3 ring keys, F/C and E/B. Almost always, the pads close at the side closest to the hinge of the key, while they are still leaking on the opposite side.
Another is insufficient venting, especially side Eb/Bb, alt Eb/Bb, C#/G#, register key, and the ring keys, making a stuffy, fuzzy sound.
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Author: William
Date: 2002-11-20 14:20
Also, check the heigth of your r-h finger rings to make certain they are not creating a slight leakage by preventing your finger from completely sealing the tone hole opening. On my Buffet Bb, if my bridge key is not perfectly adjusted, my r-h clarion register will be "slugish" in responding but at the same time, my lower r-h register notes will respond perfectly. Check it out.
But if your instrument cannot be corrected via your "tech" before the trial period is up, SEND IT BACK. Most likey, you will find that dream effer (Hmmm--oxymoron ???) in the next instrument to receive for audition. Personally, I would also be trying the Selmers or the Yamahas, but that is just my bias (I have never played a Patricola)
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Author: clarynet
Date: 2002-11-20 15:39
Length does matter. I bought an A about a year ago and I loved it, however the resistance wasn't what I wanted. My second choice when trying out the A's was OK, but the resistance level was awesome and I loved it. Same with my Bb. My repairman and I checked it out and there was about a couple of 16ths difference. He took out the tube and shaved it down a bit and it's great!compare general sizes with your vito and your Eb, even though they are different hors, you can still get a general idea!
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2002-11-20 15:41
Thanks for the help. I'm sure that at least some of what Gordon is saying is the situation with this horn. I think rather than rush around to get the instrument up to speed before the trial period runs out I'll send it back to the dealer telling him that I'd be interested in trying it again after any leaks were fixed but I'd want to have at least one other identical model sent to me so I could choose the best of the two. The one I have now is the only one this dealer had in stock. I think I should have insisted before-hand that I be sent at least two for comparison. I think this is the course I'm going to follow from now on. And the reason I'm looking to the Patricola is the additional keywork (articulated G#/C#, alternate Eb/Ab key) that I don't believe is available on any of the other makes.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-11-20 16:36
Robert - Several of our "pro's" have given you good advice above. Since your question re: reg. vent tube, om which there is not much info readily available, I'll add what I have looked into. My best Selmer and LeBlanc have tubes extending into the bores only about 1/3 of the diameter, and have a {raised} boss on the outer surface, IMHO to give the needed length for register shifting AND "pinch Bb", both of which are very good IMO. A. Galper has done research on this, and has a patent, US 5,241,890, which has only 4,714,001 cited, which will be available for viewing on USPTO.gov, might be of interest to you, if you wish to have one installed. Luck, Don
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2002-11-21 00:50
I talked to the dealer about the horn today. As it turns out the reason for the extra long register tube has to do with the Stubbins type throat Bb venting mechanism. Since this horn is the only horn I've seen with this mechanism this would explain why I've never seen it before. So if this is part of the design I don't have a problem with it as long as I can get a swab through the horn. As for the resistance, the dealer told me that there should be more resistance than on the the Vito student horn. That there's a tradeoff between ease of response and tone quality/intonation. This sounds reasonable. So since I've decided to keep the horn I'll have to adapt to playing a more resistant set-up than what I'm used too. But I'm confident that this can be done. I was playing it a short while ago and it felt pretty good. But I guess that there will be a bit of a learning curve with this horn.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2002-11-21 01:50
How interesting! My copy of the Stubbins patent, US 2,508,550 "Cylindrical Pipe Wood-Wind Instrument", of which 1/2 of the "rights" are assigned to Kaspar [not shown as co-inventor!], appears to describe the upper joint locations of the register vent and the "Bb" tone hole. But, other than what may be assumed from the Figure 5 drawing [the vent tube projecting into about 1/3 of the bore] no length info is given. Brymer on pgs 52-3 describes the workings [and problems solved and generated!] as shown in Fig 16, well worth reading. Also interestingly, Stubbins is cited as prior art in Galper's patent. TKS, R S, for asking the question. Don
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2002-11-21 04:43
The Stubbins Bb mechanism seems to work pretty well. It opens up the sound some and makes it easier to play the pinch Bb in tune, though I have to be careful to keep a relaxed embouchure or the Bb will go very sharp--another aspect of this horn that'll take a little getting used to. I can close off the little extra venting hole/pad with my right hand while playing and I can notice a little increased stuffiness and a slight drop in pitch. So the mechanism does work to some extent. I hope it never developes the problem of the pad sticking shut because the pad is hard to get to for cleaning.
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