 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Zack Best
Date: 2002-10-21 20:13
I have been having a problem with upper clarion notes
(A, B, C) being sharp and throat tones (mid-staff F, G, A, Bb)
being flat. I can easily tune either one but only at
the expense of the other. With throat tones close enough
in tune, upper clarion runs about 20 cents sharp.
Is this common? Is it a problem with my horn?
Is it a technique problem? Any easy fixes?
(Sales literature for my clarinet says it uses
traditional higher tuning in the upper clarion tones.
Perhaps this was not a good choice for me.)
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Author: Dee
Date: 2002-10-21 21:11
Perhaps one or more pads in the upper joint are too close to the holes and making the throat flat.
This sounds like a Leblanc from the advertising. I have one of the older models, which would have this higher tuning, and don't particularly have the problem of flat throat tones.
Technically speaking, F is not a throat tone. You have the thumb on a tone hole.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-10-21 22:00
It may be necessary to use a longer barrel to cure the upper clarion sharpness, while having the throat G, G#, and A tonehole modified to cure the throat tone flatness independently -- this is done by building up the lower inner rim of the tonehole (e.g. with cork) and enlarging the upper half-circle of the tonehole (towards the mouthpiece end). This is not a terribly difficult job for a decent tech.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2002-10-21 22:47
It is suggested that you try a Moennig or Chadash barrel to lower the high notes in the left hand. You could possibly get by with a barrel that is the same length as yours, but it would also be good to try one that is a mm shorter to try to bring up the throat tones.
Undercutting the F hole could raise the F pitch while leaving the upper C unchanged. Usually, both the E and the F are low in pitch. Check that the throat tone holes are clear of lint and crud. Also check the heights of the pads from the toneholes. A competant clarinet tuner can take care of the throat tone tuning by scraping the holes slightly larger, but I would only do this as a last resort after other avenues have been checked. Buffet R13s often have flat Fs and Es as well as sharp high B and C.
"Traditional high tuning" sounds like a marketing excuse.
Good luck!
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Author: JPM
Date: 2002-10-22 00:30
Dear Zack,
The literature you have quoted is from the Leblanc catalog and refers to the Infinite model, a very fine instrument. I have one too and the twelfths
are actually better than my R-13. Before you do any radical physical alterations to your clarinet,
may I suggest another alternative for your consideration?
When I was a university student my clarinet professor, Eugene Zoro, encouraged me to work with a strobe tuner to learn to cope with the
uneven scale of the R-13. The upper clarion tones
usually need to be lipped down to be played in tune. Working with a tuner on these pitches and using "muscle memory" to develope this habit was very useful for me. I hope this may be of some help.
Sincerely,
JPM
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-10-22 01:56
I have a LeBlanc "Ambiance" and it plays wonderfully with impeccable intonation. Perhaps I just got lucky, but it is a joy perform with this clarinet. I do not know much about the Infinite, but I also suggest using a tuner. Perhaps you are using a bit too much pressure on the upper notes. Try to relax a bit up there and keep "everything" open.
Good luck,
jbutler
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2002-10-22 09:48
kia ora
yes, it is possible that you could deliberately sharpen the "throat tones without adversely affecting the left hand notes, thus allowing you to tune DOWN further to bring them all into tune.... that does make sense, really!
however....
a CONTIBUTING factor (note my choice of words- often on the clarinet problems have more than one cause) could also be that you might play with a "low tounge postion", which would make your sound slightly "spread" (less focused). What is your "Model" sound- do you aim for a "big round fat mellow sound"? Get out your clarinet and play F major scale descending, starting on top line F... as you go down from the upper register to the lower does your tone change a great deal? are your "scooping" or "aiming down" with your sound?
Most well built clarinets will play best in tune if you play with what is described as a "focussed sound"- you should be able to play the F major scale within the treble cleff MORE OR LESS IN TUNE without having to adjust your embouchure.
At the same time- if your throat is overly tense and tight, this will sharpen the upper clarion pitches more than other notes (it'll make your throat tones sound a bit thin, but not sharpen them as much as the upper clarion). To check for this.... play a high C and try to fade out to just the sound of air.... in the last seconds before the sound ends can you feel your throat "closing off" the sound? Can you actually fade out or do you get an undertone (the undertone is most often claimed to indicate lack of air support, but very often is the result of a constricted airway)
try and check out these things before you go and pay some one to retune your clarinet.
donald
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Author: graham
Date: 2002-10-22 13:50
I play on old clarinets and by comparison to modern ones they play sharper from clarion g to the c above. That was the deliberate policy then and it allowed (allows) players to relax in that register without going flat. I suggest you think about letting the embouchure relax much more in that register. You may be tensing up a little as can often be the case with modern instruments to ensure these notes are not flat. I would experiment with playing like this rather than doing any alterations to your instrument.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2002-10-22 16:02
JPM -
When I went to Interlochen in 1958, Eugene Zoro and Larry Combs were legends, even though they were no longer there. I think they traded back and forth as first chair in the high school orchestra in 1956 and 1957. Zoro must be a remarkable player. Where does he teach?
Zack -
Clarinet register vent placement is a compromise between intonation and a usable throat Bb. Lower and larger gives a good Bb but widens the 12ths. Higher and smaller gives the registers in tune but a bad Bb.
The Buffet R-13 has a relatively low and large vent. The top of the chalumeau register is difficult to lip up, so the top of the clarion, which is comparatively easy to lip down, is make sharp. Other makers opt for a dull Bb or use an auxiliary vent mechanism.
Tom Ridenour told me the Leblanc Infinite was designed for R-13 players, with the "traditional" high clarion. By contrast, he was able to use a small, high vent on the Opus and Concerto models and still get a good Bb by other design changes. The same claims are made for the Selmer Signature. The newer Buffet models (Festival, RC) also have a higher vent and better intonation between the registers. Leblanc advertising claims are fanciful, but I think at least one about intonation is true, compared with the stock R-13.
I play an R-13 for two reasons. First, it has a quality and flexibility of tone color that, at least for me, is not there on the other instruments. Second, my R-13s have had a custom setup that corrects the intonation problems.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-10-22 16:06
Ken Shaw wrote:
>
> Zoro must be a remarkable player.
> Where does he teach?
Western Washington University. Looks like he decided (or ended up) on an academic track - teaching there since 1969.
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