 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Mark S.
Date: 2002-09-23 14:02
I've got a couple little guys (about 9 years old) taking lessons with me this Fall that are struggling a bit with the size of the Bb clar. I generally take more advanced students (e.g. older/bigger), so this is a bit of a new experience for me.
As cute as it is to see them skronking on a horn that looks so big, it also presents some obvious ergonomic problems. I wanted to see how any of the instructors on this board have dealt with the support problem with the regular Bb. Kinderclar is not an option for a variety of reasons. Neckstrap is an obvious solution, but sometimes introduces weird technique problems that are hard to break when they get bigger. All ideas welcomed!
Mark
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Author: d dow
Date: 2002-09-23 14:09
As a teacher and pro player I generally feel it is almost better to wait or try to get them a smaller clarinet say in C or Eb so they can get around the physical limitations imposed by a larger clarinet .....
I would also say that a fine teacher should be able to begin teaching beginners (and for some not to is something of a cop out.) I play as a pro and can remember all the technique problems and difficulties I went through as a beginner....so to emphasize with the difficulty of beginnning a student fresh off is something a fine teacher should look at as a challenge. I am not sure about your feelings on the Kinder clarinet, as Julian Bliss started on one and he is now one of the youngest virtuoso players I have seen.
Enjoy teaching it can be alot of fun and rewarding
Siincerely D D
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2002-09-23 14:23
To release the weight you can also have them place the bell on a table or pile of books or something. There exist special pegs or stands but they are expensive...
By the way, having your students use a neck strap is a good thing too. If they keep on using it that will save them wrists problem that many of us had to face...
-S
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Author: Mark S.
Date: 2002-09-23 14:25
David,
Thanks for the sentiments. The kinderhorn is not an option largely for economic reasons. For one child, he is playing on his father's old horn, and dad won't commit any more $$ to an instrument until his son demonstrates a lasting commitment. The other sunk money into an instrument before signing up for lessons, so again, stuck. Thus, I have to find a way to make it more comfortable for them with the "big" horns.
Regards,
MS
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-09-23 14:58
I have one very young student. She started last winter, at the age of 8. She's small for 8, too.
However, for the first few lessons, I had her playing while holding the barrel with her right hand. As I introduced the right hand position, I told her to play with the r.h. in its correct place for a few minutes a day.
When even that became too much for the right thumb, we got her a neckstrap. That seems to help. I'm not sure what problems you refer to with respect to the neckstrap though.
Another thing is that her fingers are somewhat short, so sometimes covering the r.h. holes can be a problem. Hopefully your guys have horns with smaller holes...the Selmers are particularly bad in that respect. My student has a Vito, which has smaller tone holes.
One other thing: As we've gotten into the low chalumeau register lately, we've discovered that it's difficult for her to reach the r.h. low F key while covering the holes completely. My solution: teach her the l.h. fingering first...sometimes you have to make allowances to your normal teaching routine.
Another approach I've taken is to limit the introduction of clarion register. I don't think she's ready to go up there with the problems that small fingers create! So I've got her working from several method books at once. The only challenge is that she really gets the MUSIC aspects naturally and she gets bored easily. It would be great if I could come up with some more difficult music that doesn't go into the clarion...
Anyhow, that's how I'm dealing with the challenges...
Katrina
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Author: Peter Spriggs
Date: 2002-09-23 15:23
Mark,
I have successfully taught young (small) students using Eb clarinets. If going to an Eb is not an option, then put the clarinets in the closet for a couple of years until they are bigger. You would not buy shoes 3 sizes too big, would you. Same thing. They will get turned off if you force them to try doing something they are not physically capable of doing.
Peter
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2002-09-23 16:45
If not the eefer, how about playing the recorder for a year or so? I learned the recorder first, then when I started beginner band, within about 3 days of getting my clarinet I could play some of the same tunes as I could on the recorder. It's a good trainer.
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Author: Kai
Date: 2002-09-23 17:57
A friend of mine bought a instrument which was supposed to be a simple construction of the chalameau.
It is built to play with any of our Bb mouthpieces but as expected, the range of the instrument doesn't go any bigger than I think, an 2 octaves ; which should be fairly sufficient. The size is that of a recorder and even the material of the body used is the same. thus it was cheap too.
Perhaps, this can be a good alternative to the Bb for children.
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Author: Jeroboam
Date: 2002-09-23 21:22
Then, of course, there's always the Lyons C clarinet that was designed just for this purpose.
http://www.firstclarinet.com/
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Author: RA
Date: 2002-09-24 02:32
I started on a recorder at 7 and did not play clarinet until I was 15 because of financial issues. However, I can say that I had an awesome teacher and am now playing pieces that I shouldn't be for 5. This makes me a very happy person. Speaking of clarinets, I am going to try and handbuild one. We'll see how it turns out and I'll let you know.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-09-24 08:00
Wish you well, RA
I've been planning to turn a barrel or two, probably from maple, just to see/hear how they do. That's about my speed at the moment. Just haven't had the spare time yet though - maybe when winter sets in. Yesterday I made up a tone hole seat tool for a personal restoration project but haven't tried it yet (I know it'll work). It's more for practical use rather than fun but if I ever do decide to make up a simple clarinet I'll have at least one tool to begin with I've thought of building a simple system clarinet but Everything muscial seems to require a lot of practice first. I believe I'd prefer ready made keys but... who knows at this point? It's still a pipe dream. The main obstacle for me, I think, would be the bore. A tech acquaintance made a wood flute head joint a few years back. Beautiful job. Boring it took many hours, steel-nerve patience and a lot of slow and shallow breathing - and that was just a "simple" head joint. After boring a clarinet body, the rest should be all downhill.
Anyway, I admire your ambition and your bravery, RA. I know it involves a lot of skill and practical knowledge as well as better than average machinery. Please keep us posted as you progress.
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Author: jenna
Date: 2002-09-24 13:09
I was a small kid, when I started at roughly the same age. My teacher was an elementary school music teacher, with mainly a brass background. He was very understanding, though. I think for me, the smallest of my lesson group, it just came down to requiring more time and patience. My teacher understood that. Granted, I'm no professional player, but I still use alternate fingerings for most things and get by.
Bottom line.. what worked for me was patience from my teacher and alternate fingerings. I slowly built up strength and was able to play more notes because my fingers had easier times reaching alternate keys. I learned some regular, others I didn't, and it never seemed to bother me. I know the standard fingerings now and use them with I can, but even know I'm still comfortable how I learned mostly due to the fact that my hand are still rather small.
If size is really an issue, how about putting more emphasis into the theory, necessity of the embouchure, and basic fundamentals if you haven't already? Just a thought.. I don't know what your teaching style is - you may have already tried this, but it is worth a chance. If things are really not possible talk to the parents about maybe waiting until the child grows a bit to resume, so no one feels that time is being wasted.
Oh.. and I also vote for the neckstrap and a nice thick thumbrest.
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Author: RA
Date: 2002-09-24 15:57
Yes, a neckstrap. A necessity that is on my Christmas list as I posted earlier about wrist woes.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2002-09-24 16:11
Kat: Sounds to me as if you are doing all the right things, given the circumstances. Wish I'd had a teacher like you so many years ago.
Regards,
John
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Author: Kat
Date: 2002-09-25 05:31
John,
Thanks!
I take my teaching very seriously. There are teachers at the music store where I teach who seem to buy into the acceptance of music as just another "activity." While there is not really anything inherently wrong with this, I feel a student will get more enjoyment out of an "activity" if they can do it well.
Just like soccer or gymnastics. If the kid does well and plays for the team, they feel great about themselves. If the kid comes to clarinet lessons and only learns to mimic the stuff the teacher plays with him, he does not improve in a steady fashion. There are teachers at this store who play the whole lesson with the kids. And, as I've mentioned before, there are teachers at this store who will teach whatever instrument they get students for...
It kinda gets me down, but all I do is make sure my kids all get going "correctly." (I'm not going into what I mean by that HERE...lol)
Katrina
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Author: ron b
Date: 2002-09-25 19:19
Looks to me like you have the right perspective on things, Katrina. A good teacher can bring a student out of that slump but, once they're into it, it's not easy.
Some 'teachers' can't discern the difference between a serious student and one who just wants to do an activity. Consequently, ALL their students get the 'watch me' course of instruction.
I'm agreeing with John, I think, in that took me a while to find a good player who also knew how to Teach. Beyond demonstrating basics (what I was doing wrong, essentially I don't recall him ever playing during a lesson. (If I wanted to listen to good players, there were lots of recordings he recommended). *Playing* the horn was why I was there. It makes a world of difference when an instructor focuses on the student, not her/him-self.
Your last comment is probably better addressed in a new thread, Katrina, but I agree with it.
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Author: d dow
Date: 2002-09-26 01:47
ron b hit it on the head. there are few if any fine players matched with the concept of fine teacher. on top of all of this add the fact a teacher had better know good motivation techniques--- then you might as well say the lesson is over before the instruments are out of the case. a fine teacher has to also be able to understsand the frustration and difficulties of learning. on top of this they have to challenge and at the same time encourage...not an easy act....
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Author: Mark S.
Date: 2002-09-26 16:38
All,
Thanks for the discussion. Several followed up directly on clarinets better suited to younguns, which I will keep in mind if I have the opportunity to get to future students before they buy their first instrument. As I said in my first post, buying/renting another instrument for either of my current little ones is simply not going to be an option for the parents. Clearly there is no optimal solution, but thank you for the various suggestions on how to make it comfortable for them.
Probably a new thread in itself, but this does point to the need for either better training for school music instructors or consultation with professional instrument specialists to put kids/parents on the right track before they plunge big dollars into the venture. It seems to work out right for weejuns starting on 1/4-size violins, but on clarinet and saxophone, they hand the kids instruments that are as big as they are.
Mark S.
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