 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Toni
Date: 2002-07-01 06:14
I have an old bass clarinet stamped V. Kohlert's Sons/Graslitz Germany. The serial # is 268XXX. Does anyone know how old it might be and what it might be valued at? It is in fair playing condition and is in its original case, although the case is missing a piece out of the side. Any help would be appreciated. I can't seem to find any information from blue books on this one.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-07-01 14:35
It's rather confusing with Kohlert, as the town in which they were made for many years was originally Graslitz in Bohemia, which bounced between German sovereignty (as "Graslitz") or Czechoslovakian control (as "Kraslice") -- is the bass Boehm or Albert system? If it's Albert, I'd guess it was made in the vicinity of 1900-1920; if Boehm, probably 1920's to maybe mid-30's (I think that Graslitz became Kraslice somewhere around the mid-30's, and prior to 1900 or so I believe the Kohlert's were marked "Bohemia" rather than "Germany"). Also, Kohlerts of the 1950s-to early 1970s were made in Winnenden, Germany and were all marked "Winnenden".
Hope this helps to futher obfuscate the situation...... As for value? Not much --- better to play it and enjoy it!
(By the way, my own bass clarinet is a very good hard rubber Kohlert-Winnenden from about the late 1950's).
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2002-07-01 22:14
Toni,
I don't know about the b. clar's, but just overhauled a Kohlert bassoon from early '70s. Workmanship was very suspect, especially tone holes were very uneven. I don't know how it played before with all the leaks there must have been. It plays well now! I wish you luck with the b. clar.
Thanks for the history David.
Later, I've got to go and clean up the shop area. It's gotten a little messy as of late.
jbutler
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2002-07-02 14:41
I forgot to mention that in 1974 (I think it was) what remained of the Kohlert (Winnenden, Germany) concern was bought out by Bernd Moosman, who used the Kohlert bassoon design (apparently well-regarded in the bassoon community) as the basis for the current Moosman bassoons.
Also, just after WWII when the Kohlert family fled Kraslice for Germany, the factory left behind was taken over by the Czech government-owned Amati conglomerate.
I should mention my opinion that, based on the Kohlert (Winnenden) bass clarinets I've worked on (a total of four) and the alto clarinets of very similar design (two), they are basically good instruments, well-constructed of decent materials, but with a few near-fatal design flaws that should have been put right originally. The worst of these is the lower register vent which is too small and incorrectly-positioned, giving a horrible throat-Bb. I've had to modify all the Kohlerts I've worked on with a larger, higher register vent to make the throat Bb barely tolerable, which causes the lower clarion notes to be sharp in pitch forcing me to relocate and re-shape some of those bottom toneholes (and extend the bottom of the lower joint) to compensate. These things should have been done by Kohlert, but after these and a few other more minor modifications, they become very good-playing instruments.
One final note: Lately there have appeared on eBay and the new instrument market some saxes and clarinets labelled "Kohlert". These are NOT real Kohlerts, they are Chinese-made mass-produced cheapo instruments, identical to the various Monique, Heimer, Jinyin, etc. etc. etc. Chinese-made clones around lately. Apparently either the name "Kohlert" was not copyrighted or the rights have run out, because some Chinese horn factory is sticking Kohlert labels on some of their products.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2002-07-04 11:57
Thanks for the warning about the chinese. I have a couple of old Kohlert clarinets circa 1870/ 1880 both great an eefer and a Bb Albert/ Baermann systems in Grenadilla. The Bb is a great horn. I have had a couple of bassoons too which were good players. I am about to restore a Winnenden bassoon.
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