 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: James Garcia
Date: 2002-06-26 04:18
I had commented on the a post called "stuffy prestige" and I thought I would take a poll of what clarinetist prefer if you have tried both the prestige R13 or the regular r13. Personally i found the Prestige to be very resistant. I'm not sure if it was my mouthpiece or reed but personally i prefer instruments with out too much resistance. Thanks if you respond.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-26 12:26
Do you mean Prestige RC? Because ...
An R13 Prestige is essentially an R13 (unstained wood, aux Eb, Gore-Tex pads, silver plating are the difference)
A Prestige RC is essentially an RC ((unstained wood, aux Eb, Gore-Tex pads, silver plating are the difference)
Get the picture? Prestige applies to some cosmetic & mechanical features, not the bore type.
RC and R13 have some differences in bore & tone hole placements.
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-06-26 14:37
One would have had to try a large group of either of these (5 - 10 at one time of each type for instance) to be able to give you a reasonably objective answer. Also, all of the instruments would have to be in equally good adjustment. After having done this many times at music stores, the Buffet US distributor, and the Paris factory, personally I find no general difference in resistance from one R13 model type to the other, only from one instrument to the next.
As Mark C. says, the two instruments mentioned are essentially the same if they are R13's acoustically speaking.
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Author: James Garcia
Date: 2002-06-26 16:30
I know that the R-13 and the R-13 Prestige are the same instrument but I was curious to see which one people prefer. It is kind of like the thing between the Leblanc Concerto and Opus, yes, the opus is the exact same clarinet acoustically speaking but you usually people have a preference. Like eddie daniels prefers to concerto to the opus ect. I was just curious to ones preference. R-13 or R-13 Prestige.
(PS. Mark, im not talking about any RC clarinets, sorry the midunderstanding)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-06-26 16:58
James...As the R-13 and R-13 Prestige are acoustically the same instrument, with the differences being merely a few frills (aux Eb, gore-tex pads, wood color) the decision as to which one someone prefers is often based on if one feels the extra features are worth the $$.
I fail to see how relevant and to what purpose this would be interesting.
If one finds that 82.478% of clarinetists prefer the R-13 over the R-13 Prestige, will that be the deciding factor as to which clarinet I (or you) next purchase? I think not...GBK
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-06-26 18:03
Oh. It was my understanding that you were specifically concerned about an inherent difference in resistance between the two R13 models.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Irwin
Date: 2002-06-26 20:06
Can't speak to the difference between R13 and Prestige. However, having had both the Leblanc Concerto and Opus, I have a huge preference for and have come to rely upon the aux Eb key that the Opus but not the Concerto has.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-06-26 20:57
I think, GBK, he was referring to his own findings that the R13 Prestige tended to be "stuffier" than the plain R13. He was wondering if this was a common occurance or just an aberration.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-06-27 03:15
Mark...Thanks for the clarification. I suppose that James' original question was not explicit enough...
Concerning the Prestige R-13, Buffet does mention in their literature (and I quote exactly):
"With Prestige wood, the player must fill the clarinet with a bit more air due to the delay in vibration."
Perhaps that is what James is referring to when he says "stuffier"...GBK
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2002-06-27 04:00
This is just typical corporatespeak befitting of the usual PR depts. It's there to have something to write about to distinguish and justify the different models in the R13 line.
The wood selected has nothing to do with resistance - the dimensions do - unless they are ending up with a different dimension somewhere BECAUSE of the quality or density of the wood. That's an entirely different subject.
If what Buffet said were true (and they don't explicitly reference "resistance" per se), then why would there be just as many "resistant" R13's as there are Prestige R13's? Conversely, why would there be just as many "less resistant" Prestige R13's as regular R13's? That's been my experience as I mentioned before. It makes no sense to say that Prestige R13's are inherently stuffier or more resistant *as a whole* than regular R13's unless of course the dimensions were different.
Gregory Smith
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-06-27 04:12
Greg...I totally agree with your assessment of the Buffet PR as found in their literature.
However, in your work and experience with wood (mouthpieces/clarinets), how would denser wood affect the coloration of the sound. Brighter? Darker? More/Less overtones?
Or, are we reading too much into this?
Thanks...GBK
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Author: David Dow Symphony NB
Date: 2002-06-27 17:01
I think I agree totally with Gregg on this one. For example , one may feel that one instrument is stuffy over another, but this is highly objective and questionable. I find that if anything the buffet clarinets in general are free-blowing and it is possible you should look at reed set up or even the relative humidity as a source of trouble. I have a RC Prestige, and have played on R13s for years and select them for students. Generally, I have to say they are very consistent.. ......further thoughts on Buffet....generally R13s and RCs are made with higher standards than other models in the entire selection of makers. It is sometimes the subjective feelings that we have they tend to cloud our thinking. I would like to know also on what part of the scale is the stuffiness worst? I would also ask is resisatance through the entire range the same or quite different from note to note? Can some of these problems be attributed to the instrument player or reed set up? I think that it would also be fair of me to add that I haven't really found such a great difference among the 100s of RC I have tried in terms of resistance(Prestige models) and this the same for the RC R13s. I certainly have found among idividual clarinets a few that I personally found not to my liking n terms of resistance or qualities in given areas of tuning. If anything of late production standards have risen at Buffet so quality control is very high at the moment.....Sincerly and Good luck, D.Dow
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Author: David Dow Symphony NB
Date: 2002-06-27 17:11
Dear Freinds: To add to this a little.....the idea of accurrate borework from model to model can be measured with a micrometer and also with simple tools...in the models of RCs and R13s i have found in spite of the varieties of grain of wood( and qualities of wood )in the Presige line that they generally play very consistent. Once in a while a model may not be so good....but this does not mean it may not improve with playing. I would also like to know what the contributor means by stuffiness? Generally, this is felt the most in the chalumeau , around the throat notes, however, the contributor above hasn't specified more , so it hard to make an objective comment. The register key on the RC is higher(placed_) and the toneholes are in differnet places with some diameter changes from the R13.
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