 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ~ jerry
Date: 2002-06-05 17:35
I recently heard Brahm's "Clarinet Concerto in F Minor" (that's the way it was listed on DirecTV) and I've been unsuccessful in locating anything other than ".......in E." -- Maybe I miss copied the info.
Anyway, the question is, what is any one's opinion as to whether a very basic beginner (rather nebulous -- I know) can play this piece? It sounded, for the most part, slow and uncomplicated on the CD. Does any one know if the written music is available?
~ jerry
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Author: thomas piercy
Date: 2002-06-05 19:36
Actually, the Sonata has been re-worked, arranged into a concerto arrangmeent with orchestra.
Tom Piercy
thomaspiercy.com
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Author: pete
Date: 2002-06-05 19:39
the piece your refering to is the first clarinet sonata, Berio arranged it for orchestra and sabine Meyer performed the premier. as far as i know the Eb sonata has also been arranged for Clt and orchestra but i can't be sure.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-06-05 21:58
Hi Jerry,
Toward the end of his life, Brahms wrote four works, all chamber pieces, for clarinet: Sonatas in f minor and Eb Major with piano, a Trio in a minor with piano and cello, and a Quintet in b minor with string quartet. You probably heard the Sonata in f, given the key you've identified. If you heard it with piano, it was in its original form. If you heard it with orchestra, it was likely in the Berio arrangement (which is still titled "Sonata," I believe). Unfortunately, Brahms did not write a clarinet concerto.
If you would like to hear it (and Brahm's other works for clarinet), go to:
<www.naxos.com>
From the home page, put your cursor over the "Catalogs" bar on the left, then choose "Search our Catalog" from the drop down menu that appears. You will have to register but it's free and gives you free access to listen to most of their catalog (anything out of copyright, it appears). In the form, enter Brahms as "Composer" and "Sonata" as title.
IMHO, the Sonatas are deceptively difficult, however, there is much to enjoy in them and certainly parts that you could navigate and benefit from working on. Numerous publishers have published the two Sonatas. They are arguably (but widely) considered the two greatest works for clarinet in this genre and among the greatest works for clarinet in any form. You should be able to find them at any sheet music store that has a section of solo works for clarinet.
BTW, orchestral versions of both sonatas have been recorded. If my memory serves, there are actually at least two different orchestrations of the second Sonata (neither by Berio). James Campbell recorded the Sonata in f. Wolfgang Meyer has recorded orchestral versions of both sonatas on EMI. There is also a recording on Centaur of the second sonata though the performer's name escapes me. I was surprised to hear that Sabine Meyer gave the world premier of the Berio.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: ~ jerry
Date: 2002-06-06 00:09
Thanks, Jack lots of good info I didn't expect...............except, somehow I missed the url.
I was at work when I first posted this query, so I need to make some clarifications (now that I'm home with my notes in front of me).
Sounds like everyone had it "nailed"..........it is sonata.........
CD - Brahms - "The Works for Clarinet II"
FSM/97741 (I don't know if this is a "musicworld" # or what)
"Clarinet Sonata in F minor" OP. 120
Francois Benda, Klarinette
This is as I copied it from the TV screen.
Thanks for everyone's help. This piece sure seemed slow enough and uncomplicated, but.........looks (sound) can be deceiving I guess.
~ jerry
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-06-06 02:48
Hi Jerry,
I think I just figured out a careless flaw in my url's. I think I left out the "http://" part and I think I did that once before. I find it interesting that, with that missing, the whole url disappears. Let's try again:
http://www.naxos.com
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: nzdonald
Date: 2002-06-06 10:29
i have the Wolfgang Meyer recording of these two sonatas reworked for Clarinet and orchestra..... i also had for some time a cassette tape of Larry Combs with the Chicago symphony (1994ish?) doing the F minor sonata in a live performance on NPR (in the USA)..... all good performances, but i have to say that i'm not too fond of the orchestrations- especially the "extra added bits" (itro to 1st mvt, Fmin for instance).
... i'm a pretty open listener- i also perform lots of transcriptions (and have it held against me sometimes) so my dislike for the orchestrations is not a "knee jerk reaction". i wish we had a Brahms Clarinet Concerto, but we most definately don't.
donald
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Author: dAVID dOW
Date: 2002-06-06 16:10
The Brahms is not a good piece to teach a beginner, all professionals would probably agree that it exists in a realm of musicality teaching to a beginner would be useless.
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Author: David
Date: 2002-06-06 17:26
If anyone offers you the 1st clarinet part in Brahms 4th Symphony, grab it. The slow movement is the nearest you'll get to a clarinet concerto and makes you wonder what could have been.
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Author: diz
Date: 2002-06-07 06:18
Tell me, is the Berio version (orchestration) identifiably Brahmsian?
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2002-06-07 12:25
Diz,
IMO, very much so. This is not what you would expect from Berio. It is similar in concept to Schonberg's orchestration of the Brahms Piano Quartet (which is coupled with the Sonata on the Cala recording described below), I think he was actually fairly successful at emulating Brahms' style. According to the liner notes for the Cala recording by James Campbell (apparently still available -- CACD 1006), he only added a trombone and contrabassoon to "a restrained classical palette of double woodwinds, 3 horns, 2 trumpets, tympani and strings." Otherwise, he extended the orchestral introduction with 14 bars of additional music and added 5 bars to the beginning of the second movement. This is not the only work that Berio has orchestrated. He did Schubert's "10th" Symphony and, I think, something by Mahler.
Also according to the CALA notes, he was commissioned by the Los Angeles Philharmonic Association to prepare this work in 1986. I have also seen 1984-86 listed as the date(s) of composition (I forget the source). Given the commission, I would have thought that Michele Zukovsky would have given the premier though it is certainly possible that Sabine Meyer did. Pete, I would be interested in the source of your information.
In any case, Michele Zukovsky has recorded the piece. So, you can hear some of it for yourself at:
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/100/michele_zukovsky_-_la_phil.html
(Appears to be legal, BTW.) While there, if you want to, you can also listen to some of the John Williams Clarinet Concerto (which, IMHO, sounds as much like John Williams as the Brahms sounds like Berio and sounds as though it was recorded on a cheap pocket recorder.)
For the record, I agree with the other posters who regard this piece as an interesting curiosity. To me, the orchestral versions of the Sonatas are not nearly as effective as the original.
One correction to my earlier message. Berio did not refer to the piece either as a Sonata or a Concerto. In fact, he simply called it "Op. 120 No. 1 for Clarinet and Orchestra." Also, the other recording of an orchestration of the second sonata (arr. Thomas Sleeper) is by Margaret Donaghue on Centaur (CRC2453).
Best regards,
jnk
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