 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: laura
Date: 2002-02-14 21:17
I would like to start teaching. I am an 11th grader in high school, and I haven't heard many people on this board talk about teaching until they are in college, but I know some other people in my high school who are, and my private teacher suggested it. I will only do beginners(elementary and lower middle school)but I want some advice even for that - I remember quite clearly how anoying it was having to change my embrochure and tounging - twice - because someone didn't explain it clearly. So what do you know? the elementary kids in my area are learning from Essential Elements 2000... but I have heard good things about other books too, like Rubank. For specifics, what should I focus on if I am trying to teach a complete beginner, or someone who has never been to a private teacher before?
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Author: Mindy
Date: 2002-02-14 22:06
well....I'm in 9th grade and I have two beginning students. One of them, for some reason, can't match the the notes to the piano! I am trying to figure it out why (if anyone knows please help) I really like Rubank......I think the first things is just get some sound out......correct the embrochure......etc...etc... I don't know I still need a lot of ideas also.....:) Good Luck!!
Mindy
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Author: Stephanie
Date: 2002-02-15 04:20
Are you telling the beginner to play say, concert Bb and then playing C on the piano? Cuz ya know, clarinet is one whole step lower than an piano...just thought I'd ask.
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Author: Mindy
Date: 2002-02-15 10:31
no no no hehehe she plays a concert Bb and the piano plays Bb. when I play concert Bb on her clarinet, it sounds correct. It matches up together.
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Author: Mike
Date: 2002-02-15 13:11
She got bad embrochure. Mouthpiece set up is not to be clamped by the teeth!
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2002-02-15 13:26
i have 2 beginners. with one i use essential elements and the other i use accent on achievement.
one good method i find that works with a beginner beginner, or very young child, is to go thru the excercise with them before they actually play it.
first thing we do is name the notes. if the kid has trouble naming a note i write it in for them (for ahwile) gradually doing it less and less.
next, i point to each note and they tell me the number of beats.
finally, we clap the rhythm, sometimes using numbers, some times using the note names.
when all that is done, then the student plays it.
of course this is assuming they know note value and how to play some notes. when i started - i wanted to teach open G as the first note, becuz theres no fingers involved. but its difficult for young children to balance the clarinet and their fingers want to go over the holes naturually, so i think C is the best note to start with, going up to D, E etc..
i would reccommend the A.A. book. Rubank is good, but can be pretty boring for children. just a note - its harder to teach someone who has never played before than lets say an advancing beginner.
good luck, JL
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Author: jez
Date: 2002-02-15 13:47
The thought of anyone having to take advice from this forum (however good the advice may be) to pass on to younger students fills me with horror. If beginners were started off by experienced players/teachers perhaps we'd have fewer complaints about having to re-learn techniques or get rid of bad habits which could have been avoided in the first place.
I can't think of any field other than music where a similar situation would occur. If I wanted to get my car/teeth/divorce fixed I wouldn't take it to someone who thought they could have a go and try to find out whatever they needed to know as they went along.
Sorry, Laura & Mindy, if I sound patronising, but I do feel strongly about this.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2002-02-15 17:55
exactly, everyones gotta start somewhere. right!?
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Author: rmk
Date: 2002-02-15 19:24
Yes, but you need to learn to play the instrument yourself first. Sorry, but I'm aware of very few high-school students that have the knowlege to even begin to teach a beginner how to play correctly.
Perhaps you could apprentice with an experienced teacher.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-02-15 20:39
I can hardly begin to describe the bad habits and incorrect playing/ counting/ embouchure / breathing / fingering /etc... etc... etc...
that I've had to undo, because the student took "lessons" from an older friend / cousin or acquiantance.
Leave the teaching to those who have earned their teaching license or degree. We are the ones who can diagnose the problems and offer learned solutions...GBK
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-02-15 20:46
One addition...I do realize that there are many very fine performers and artists who do not have a teaching degree. However, they have acquired a mastery of their instrument and all of its related principals...GBK
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Author: Pam
Date: 2002-02-15 22:01
For what it's worth, I agree with GBK, jez and chuck. You ought to really know what you're doing before you attempt to take on students of your own.
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Author: Brian
Date: 2002-02-15 22:43
I have been reading this forum for a while now and frankly some of you "experienced" players/teachers sound like snobs.
Not everyone is as talented or technically expertised as you but that doesn't mean you have to make them feel like idiots.
The replies to which I am referring weren't even addressed to me but they made me feel badly for those youngsters who are just trying to help someone learn to love music and the clarinet as much as they do.
And exactly how do some of you know that a high schooler is incapable of being a good teacher?
I thought this forum was supposed to be used to help each other but now I am not so sure.
C'mon people...lighten up...music is supposed to be fun...remember?
Brian
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2002-02-15 23:42
Brian wrote:
> I thought this forum was supposed to be used to help each other
> but now I am not so sure.
Hearing what you might not want to hear is just as educational as hearing what you want to hear.
Personally, if one of my kids wanted to take lessons from another student I'd ask the band director if they thought the student doing the teaching would be a good choice. I know that parents do that when they hire students for (math, history, etc.) studies.
One last thing ... having a teaching degree does not make one a teacher ... but it normally doesn't hurt.
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Author: Sneakers
Date: 2002-02-16 01:23
I agree that you should know as much about the clarinet as possible before beginning to teach and you need to play it very well, but I disagree that you need to be an experienced teacher to teach beginners. As Janlynn stated everyone has to start somewhere. Every teacher who has ever taught anything was inexperienced when they started. However, based on my own experience I know it is important to know how to explain different aspects of teaching the clarinet before trying to teach. I tried to teach about five years ago and really didn't have a good experience, but I didn't know what I was doing. I played well, but didn't know how to explain what I was doing. I have done a lot of research, here on the BB, books(David Pino, Pamela Weston, Tom Ridenour, etc.), articles from magazines and other internet resources. I feel much more confident and qualified than I did when I tried to teach before.
There are some high school students that are extremely good(BTW - I am not a high school student, many years past that). Some, though probably not many, play better than college graduates with degrees in music. Weren't there any freshman or sophmores in your universities that sat in the top few chairs of your top band or orchestra?
As far as experienced teachers go, some are great and some are not. I have a great teacher now and most of my other teachers have been very good. However, I had one university teacher who played very well, got his degree at an Ivy(Whoops! I started to say Ivory - I think they make soap at those places) League university, had taught for years and was extremely knowledgeable about the clarinet. Problem - I needed work on my embouchure, breathing and tonguing and he did absolutely nothing to work on those problem areas. In addition, he was impatient(not demanding, impatient), and no matter how old you are you want a patient teacher. I recall playing a Handel trio with him and the French horn teacher. I was playing something wrong, but he just kept getting irritated because I was playing it wrong, but didn't bother to explain to me what it was. He left the room for a few minutes and the French horn teacher explained it to me. Fixed the problem. On top of all that I think he was tired of teaching.
Don't get me wrong, I am not advocating teaching when you don't know enough or play well enough, just saying that how much education you have had is not necessarily the key to being a good teacher.
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Author: Sneakers
Date: 2002-02-16 01:28
I forgot to mention, I use to be very shy and afraid of expressing my opinion. Look what you have all turned me into. BTW - how would you change that last sentence so it doesn't end in a preposition?
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Author: Brian
Date: 2002-02-16 01:48
I agree with you Mark. It just sounded like they were almost paranoid that someone might teach as well if not better than them. I certainly did not mean to come across as being an a-hole and if I did I apologize to everyone.
I have been a clarinet player since I was 11 (I am now 34) and am by no means a professional. But in all my years of experience with the clarinet I am pretty certain I could teach a beginner a thing or two. I admire those youngsters for wanting to pass on their enjoyment of music.
Again if I have offended anyone I apologize.
Brian
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Author: GBK
Date: 2002-02-16 02:11
"...Look what you have all turned me into. BTW - how would you change that last sentence so it doesn't end in a preposition?..."
1. Look at how I've now become.
2. Look at how I've now grown.
3. Look at how my disposition has matured.
4. Look at the change in my attitude.
5. My dog is Spot. See spot run. (sorry, I got carried away)...GBK
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Author: Sandra F. H.
Date: 2002-02-16 02:15
The ideal situation is to have an experienced, educated teacher, especially if a good performer, for a beginner. If one is not available or if arrangements cannot be made for the student to procure lessons (eg. the parent will not pay for lessons), then a student teacher is better than no teacher. I did tutor students in math in high school; however, their regular teachers did direct them to me...
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2002-02-16 02:18
btw laura, i have been playing on and off with a 12 yr break since i was 10 (am now 35) and i started teaching as a senior in highschool and continue to teach today - altho not professionally and i dont have a degree.
i would say if youre so inclined to pass on something you love, go for it. it would be good experience.
best of luck, JL
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Author: Mindy's Mom
Date: 2002-02-16 04:04
Hello all -- I only read down a few posts and then I just had to write. I am Mindy's Mom and I can attest to the fact that she is an experienced and advanced player. She takes lessons from one of the most respected clarinettists in the state who happens to be professor of clrinet at a most respected university in the state. To further that statement, I am a degreed, licensed music teacher and she teaches under me and so she has guidance from not only me but her own private teacher. She and her teacher discuss her young students freely and she encourages her to teach these young beginners. I began teaching piano when I was 15 and have developed a huge following. The university that I attended did not have piano pedagogy classes at the time (they do now -- I was instumental in getting them started) but the only way I could "learn" to teach was to just get out there and teach. I would talk over things with my piano professor and many times I would find myself saying the same things to my students as my teacher was saying to me. All of this is to say ---PLEASE don't harp on these "younger" teachers because they are doing what they love -- they love to play and, in the case of Mindy, they want to teach clarinet forever (till they can't teach any more). To say that ONLY experienced and licensed teacher can teach is a bunch of hog-wash. Most of these young teachers are VERY careful about how they teach. In fact, Mindy's first teacher was a girl just out of high-school who was not even taking lessons anymore but took on Mindy because Mindy was wanting to learn and Veronica was WONDERFUL. We payed her $5 for 1/2 hour of lessons but the lessons ALWAYS went over 1 hour!! This is the type of teacher the young beginners need -- someone who will meet them where they are -- Mindy loves her little students and does WELL with them. I watch adn listen adn we go over points to make her a better teacher after each lesson.
Hhmm-- I have rambled but I was a bit "angry" after some of the posts I saw getting all over Mindy and Laura. Please don't kill these girls' dreams of teaching -- they may turn out the next ___________ (you fill in the name!!!)
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Author: Laurie
Date: 2002-02-16 05:21
I don't know where you all are from, but I'm from New York.. Mabye it's just here, but our directors often encourage having older student privatly teach beginners. I'm 17, a high school senior, and i've been accepted into music school. I've been playing clarinet for 10 years an am currently principal of every group I play in, as well as a Long Island Orchestra.
For the past 4 summers, I have been a student apprentance to my directors; Working, teaching, and helping out in the beginner music education program.I've taught everything from clarinet to trumpet to drums. By me being there, it gave some one on one time with the students, relieved some stress on the director's part and we found that some kids just related to me better then the director. I was Laurie. I wasn't the ' mean teacher' or the 'scary man'. They knew I was young, that I understand their fears, concerns, problems and such.We were on the same level and they respected and looked up to me. I learned soo much about music and interacting with children from volunteering.
I've been searching for a job, and my band director told me "It's riduculous for a kid like you to be working at king kullen when you have such a talent for music - you should give private lessons". After my last concert, a few parents came up to me and said " I heard you play, do you give private lessons". I gave them my number, and then it's up to them. I also gave my number to the elementary band director. He was thrilled.To him, I wasn't a student.I was an talented indiviudal who has a sincere love and passion for music. Also, most parents will be reluctnat to spend $50+ a lesson for a beginner student, which is the going rate for teachers in my area.
I agree that not everyone should be out giving private lessons.. but if an older student is a good player, understands the fundamentals of music and has a desire to teach, i don't see any problems.
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Author: Mary
Date: 2002-02-16 16:11
If a talented high school player gets urged by her own teacher to take students, chances are that someone "experienced" recognizes her talent for playing and possibly teaching. You learn to teach by doing it, although the resources are now out there more than ever before to get some help with the "how to do it". A good teacher is someone who is constantly making attempts to solve students' playing problems. I've had bad teachers who are great players but who just say everything they hear "sounds great". And I myself have learned a lot about teaching just by doing it and by not being satisfied with my own abilities as long as I still see students "not getting it".
I've also found, both in music and otherwise, that teaching can improve your own abilities. If you need to be able to explain how to tongue, how to be sure you're covering the holes, how to get a high C to speak, you're picking apart the details of what you do- and sometimes you find ways of solving some of your own problem areas in the process.
By the way, except by actually teaching, how do you cross the magic line to become "experienced"?
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Author: allencole
Date: 2002-02-16 18:07
I think that the last two posts sum up the best arguments in favor of students teaching. How does the consumer know what they're dealing with? Ask that student's teacher.
While I think that rank beginners should have a more experienced teacher, those who have been started off already--say, in a school band program--are certainly not going to be harmed by a competent mentor helping them to count rhythms, play scales and deal with key signatures. Without those skills, the best most professionally produced embouchures are wasted. WITH those skills, students will progress to the point where they seek more advanced instruction.
And Laurie, I think that students band books are perfectly appropriate for lessons. Many have play-along recordings available that can help students solve problems during that long week between lessons. I generally like Standard of Excellence in the first two volumes, but have taught successfully from EE 2000, and Accent. I generally find that after the first two band books are completed, students are ready for something like Rubank Intermediate.
As for Rubank Elementary, I agree that it is boring for youngsters, and some of its fingering info is inferior to that of the newer generation of band books. (Rubank Intermediate is far superior) You might want to investigate these other books as suppliments to student band books:
1 - Learn To Play Clarinet Duets (Eisenhauer) [Alfred]
2 - Tunes for Clarinet Technic [WB/Belwin] 3 terrific volumes
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Author: Meri
Date: 2002-02-16 20:10
Congratulations on your interest in teaching, laura!
By the way you write, you seem very articulate and would probably make an excellent teacher.
Some ideas for you:
You might want to write down the approaches your teacher used with you (or that you've thought of) on understanding various musical and playing concepts, perhaps in a computer file. If those approaches don't work, ask your teacher (I do) for other ones, or spend some time with books about the art of teaching. For example, I like to use the concept of "balls on the holes" for correct finger placement. Showing that the slight 'pop' they get when their fingers are in the correct place sometimes helps.
As for materials to use, I would go for one main method book, but use supplementary material either from other books or create them.
Have patience! But, at the same time, don't drag the rapid learner. Example: my 12-year-old student is almost finished with the Galper method (I am planning on starting him on the Hite Melodious and Progressive next week); my 10-year-old student is not even halfway, they have both been studying for about four months. However, things are definetely coming together now for the 10-year-old, something the 12-year-old student had in less than 6 weeks. Interestingly, the 10-year-old had 2 years of piano lessons before clarinet; the 12-year-old had no lessons whatsoever.
Consistently reinforce good playing habits.
Reinforce their sound concept by having them listen to recordings.
Write down their assignments, including habits they are to watch for.
Seperate music reading from playing the instrument as much as possible. (Trust me, it works!) This especially applies to teaching rhythm.
But, as my teacher says about him and real estate (yes, he has a non-musical occupation), but it also applies to me when teaching, since I've only officially been at it for 4 months now:
"If you want someone with experience, go to someone else. If you want someone who's good, come to me."
You may have also heard of: "Experience only benefits those who learn from it." There are young, gifted teachers who know how to teach and have a great rapport with students, and there experienced teachers who could learn a lot from the young, gifted teachers. I also like the analogy between dental students and young music teachers: young music teachers are sometimes more aware of techniques and approaches that will make progress easier.
I hope this encourages you.
Meri
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Author: Jim E.
Date: 2002-02-17 05:30
I am a Catholic HS grad, class of '68. To make ends meet in such scools them, the students often became unpaid staff members. We cleaned the rooms each day, some worked in the school store etc. I taught clarinet. Each of the summers before my last 2 years I was presented with a group of incoming freshmen all equipted with school owned Bundys and ready to begin. (We used the Belwyn Band Builder book as I remember.) By August the band director was pushing me to get them over the register break, and by the 2nd week of Sept, they were marching and playing the 3rd part (badly!) Is this any way to run a marching band? NO! We stunk! But there was no instrumental program in the Catholic elem schools, and this was the only way. Should I have been teaching with only 5 years of playing? Heck no! But I was better than the director who was a pianist. Did I do any of them any harm? I don't think so as none had any desire to actually study the instrument. Instead it gave them an activity and an exposure to music they otherwise wouldn't have had. The shcool eventually gave into the situation and abolished the band in 1977, and to this day has no band program.
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The Clarinet Pages
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