 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rob Maeda
Date: 1999-06-14 21:50
I am a beginning clarinet student, looking to buy a box of new reeds, but when I looked at a reed website, I found that there are many types of reeds. I was advised to buy Vandorens, but even Vandoren has many types. I am now using Vandoren 2.5s. But I see that they have traditional, V12, and hand select reeds. What are the differences in these reeds in terms of tone and playability? Are the v12s and "Hand -select" worth the increase in price?
Thanks a lot.
Rob Maeda
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-06-14 21:57
Rob Maeda wrote:
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I am a beginning clarinet student, looking to buy a box of new reeds, but when I looked at a reed website, I found that there are many types of reeds. I was advised to buy Vandorens, but even Vandoren has many types. I am now using Vandoren 2.5s. But I see that they have traditional, V12, and hand select reeds. What are the differences in these reeds in terms of tone and playability? Are the v12s and "Hand -select" worth the increase in price?
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IMHO:
For a beginning student, the traditional VD 2.5s or a Mitchell Laurie of about the same number (MLs run softer than VDs) are just fine. The V12s are thicker and do sound a bit different , but don't justify the price difference at first. I play on Rico Grand Concert Thick Blanks, which I happen to find more consistent than the V12s - however - YMMV.
As you progress, you may want to experiment with the different reeds (as long as they're not "plain" Ricos - unfortunately, that particular model of reed - not brand - is not very good at all - at least I've never heard anyone say anything good about it, and I have never found a good reed in any of the plain Rico boxes.)
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Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 1999-06-14 22:04
I agree with Mark. The reeds you are playing on are fine right now. Just keep an open mind, and if you can afford it, EXPERIMENT!!! I used to play on the Vandoren V-12's. I love their sound, but they were (for me) very inconsistent. Finally, after getting annoyed for the 40 millionth time, I decided to try the Rico Grand Concert Select Thick Blanks. I like them, but as soon as I get down to my last reed, I'm going to try that Olivierri (sp?) reed that I've heard so much about. The V-12's are worth the price if you are willing to put up with the inconsistency. V-12's vs. the regular Vandoren's- your guess is as good as mine. You're just going to have to play them one after the other and see which one you like better. Above all, remember this-there are many good reeds, try to use each of them at least once unless you find the PERFECT reed for you.
the rising freshman,
Nicole Y.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-06-14 22:12
Nicole Y. wrote:
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I like them, but as soon as I get down to my last reed, I'm going to try that Olivierri (sp?) reed that I've heard so much about.
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Just a word of advice. Wait 'till your down to your last <b>box</b> and order new reeds. You know that your last reed will give up the ghost 3 days before a concert, and you'll have no time to break in a new reed. Just 3 days of sheer terror :^)
I always have 3 boxes of reeds - one I use, one I will use, and one I don't open. As soon as I open a new box, I order a new box. That way, if I order a new type and don't like them I still have plenty of time to get yet <b>another</b> box before something bad happens.
And I always have that 3rd, unopened box, for dire emergencies.
Of course, now I have unopened boxes of ML 2.5 and 3s, VD 2.5s, VD V12 2.5s, a box of Zonda 3s, and my box Rico GC Thick #3.5s.
Maybe they'll be worth something in 20 years (when people are pining for the "good" cane from the late 90's :^)
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Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 1999-06-14 22:30
BUT if you don't have the funds for that kind of reed buying, you can't do that. I only have one box of reeds at a time. Right now I have about 5 left, but I'll only order more if I'm down to 3. AND, since I've gone through that "last reed goes night before concert" scenario, I found out that soaking them overnight does just as well for me as starting with a brand spankin' new reed.
the rising freshman,
Nicole Y.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 1999-06-14 23:36
Nicole - if you have enough money for reeds later, then you should have enough for reeds now. Just start buying a little earlier each time - you'll finally get ahead of the game. You really need to start doing this! The soaking trick just might not work someday, and you'll be left sounding less than you're capable of.
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Author: Don Longacre
Date: 1999-06-15 02:56
Rob Maeda: VD V12 reeds are cut slightly different than
standard Vandorens. They are designed to work with mouth
pieces with a longer lay. That is, the point where the
rails of the mouthpiece break away from the reed. A long
lay mouth piece breaks at about 20mm from the tip. Using
V12s on a short lay mouthpiece puts the break point on a
thinner portion of the V12 since they are cut with a longer
vamp (curve of the reed) and aren't as thick as a standard
reed at the break point of a short lay mouth piece. The
trouble you get into with a V12 on a short lay mp is lack
of control since the player is constantly making emboucher
adjustments to compenste. Some long lay mouthpieces are:
Vandoren M13,5RV (lyre),V13,B45. Now, don't confuse the
term "lay" with "tip opening" which of course is exactly
that; the opening between the mp tip and the reed tip. I
know of professionals who interchange the two terms. There
are trade offs with tip opening and lay measurements which
are beyond this note. I agree with Mark on the GC thick base. In my opinion they are more consistent and require less balancing and configuration. Also I think their tone is better than Vandoren's product. I'm sure many will disagree but I think Vandoren is somewhat overrated. I'm currently using Essen reeds a a german made french cut thick base reed. It was formerly Steuer & Essen. But, the're not cheap. In the commercial reed, mouthpiece and ligature bizz, there exists a lot of baloney and claims are made that are clearly without basis in fact. You might want to do some reading on clarinet acoustics to better understand the underlying principals. I would recommend Lee Gibson's CLARINET ACOUSTICS which is a fairly simple treatment. Art Benade's FUNDAMENTALS OF MUSICAL ACOUSTICS is tough and could be tedious but it is a scientific exposition of the subject and highly regarded. Finally, don't go overboard on hard reed strengths unless your using a "close tip" mp to accommodate them. If you want to get into a little advanced work, get a reed knife and work down some hard reeds you have until your satisfied and comfortable with it. Be careful in testing, don't lose intonation in the altissimo range because the lows sound so good. Jump into reed adjustment with both feet and some day maybe you'll be the guy who comes up with the perfect reed!
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Author: Lelia
Date: 1999-06-15 16:02
Another suggestion: When you start experimenting with different types of reeds, give yourself time to get used to the new ones before you jump to a different type. I've read quite a few messages both here and on sax sites from people who seem to buy several boxes of different types at once, then hop back and forth, all the time getting more and more disgusted. I did that, too, when I went back to playing after years of hiatus, with the result that at first I thought nobody made good reeds any more. What was really going on was that I didn't give myself time to adjust to the characteristics of a new reed, so I thought every reed I tried was lousy. Finally I started suspecting *I* was lousy, so I decided to use up an entire box of one type of reed, regardless of whether I thought some of the reeds in the box were bad ones, before I tried another brand. Amazing how those reeds seemed to improve! Teaching myself to adjust to reeds instead of endlessly searching for a perfect one has paid off. I spend a lot less money on reeds now because I don't throw away as many. I don't spend much time sanding them or otherwise "improving" them, either. And best of all, I play better than I did when I kept myself off-balance by switching brands all the time.
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Author: Nicole Y.
Date: 1999-06-15 18:02
Ok, maybe I should try this again. I don't have the money to buy reeds. My parents CHARGE them. So, I don't have the advantage of buying them earlier. Plus, my parents won't go for that.
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Author: paul
Date: 1999-06-15 20:50
Focus on your fundamentals first. You can thin your wallet out pretty quickly playing the "reed game". If you are a novice, get some professional guidance on what reed suits your needs for your embouchure, for your mp, for your horn, for your range, for your style of music. Settle down on what works for you and for your situation. Then, stick with what works for you for a while and learn how to play the clarinet first. If need be, get several boxes of the same brand and strength reed, then stay with it. After you have developed a good foundation of fundamentals, then you can experiment with different mouthpieces, reeds, ligatures, etc. Believe me, a fancy reed doesn't make a bad player much better. However, more than once on this BBS I've heard of people outperforming their competition with almost garbage grade junk (reeds, mps, ligs, even entire horns) because they knew their fundamentals and they could play their existing horn and setup very well. Yes, the "good stuff" can make a good player somewhat better. The good stuff won't instantly make a bad player any better technically, believe me (been there, done that as an adult novice with some very good stuff). However, I bet my copy of Baermann III that if you could play this book very well on a piece of junk horn with an equally bad reed, you probably will earn a position in the All State Band.
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