 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2001-09-18 14:26
Take a look at eBay 1466436994 to see a very strange extra key. It looks like an F#/C# tone hole on the right side of the bottom section, but the usual F#/C# tone hole is also there. In the most recent issue of The Clarinet there is a picture of a prototype model Reginal Kell wanted Boosey & Hawkes to market but they never did which has a similar key. This Leblanc extra key seems like the Kell model but still has the usual tone hole on the left side of the lower section. Just what is this key?
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Author: Stephen Froehlich
Date: 2001-09-18 14:57
Is it me or do half of these innovations seem to work their way up from harmony clarinets? (e.g. double register keys)
Here's the link for convienence:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=1466436994
Both of those keys are attached to the F/C key, I believe. They both close and open at the same time. Its a common design on Bass Clarinets. I believe all Selmer model 3X basses use double pads for the F/C key, for example. I'm pretty sure that my Kohlert does also. Honestly, its so common on Basses that I just stopped noticing some time back. Its a way to help the intonation of clarion C.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-09-18 15:06
Stephen Froehlich is exactly right --- it's a double-pad for the F/C, just like many bass clarinets (including Selmer, Kohlert, Malerne, etc.). Probably overkill for soprano clarinets, but looks cool, and that's important too, right? As for helping intonation ----- not necessarily. May improve the quality of the lower chalumeau, may not do much of anything.
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Author: HAT
Date: 2001-09-18 15:20
The Reform Boehm clarinets all feature this double f/c thing. As pointed out, it is common on bass clarinets as well. When I played some Wurlitzer reform Boehms, I didn't like what it did to the low g.
David Hattner, NYC
www.northbranchrecords.com
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-09-18 16:18
David Hattner raises a good question with his observation about the effect on the low G --- this note is indeed a poor-quality note on many bass clarinets, although it would take some experimentation to see if that tendency is as prevalent on "single-low-F/C" basses as for the "double low F/C" varieties.
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Author: jmcaulay
Date: 2001-09-18 21:50
It seems curious that the low end of this instrument has a tone hole pattern functionally identical to the Albert instruments which have the "Patent" F#/c# mechanism. Of course, on the Albert instruments, the two pads do not operate together.
Regards,
John
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-09-18 22:58
An astute observation JMC, I agree. The "doubled" F/C pad structure is quite common on basses, maybe on some altos, but I've never seen it on a soprano, cant recall it on a Selmer Basset horn, nor my Sel Alto, but is on my Sel bass. It prob. improves the venting on the low G and A, hard to tell! Don
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Author: Wes
Date: 2001-09-19 07:46
This duplicate key was on my first good clarinet, a Noblet Bb soprano, made about 1948. It came in a white French type case with a cover.
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Author: jmcaulay
Date: 2001-09-19 20:19
It appears that these duplicate tone holes are not closed to produce F/c. Rather, they must be normally closed, but they are opened to produce F#/c#. The F/c hole is the one toward the top of the instrument from the uncommon pair, while the one above that is the G#/d# hole.
As a matter of interest, I scaled the photographs, along with a couple of instruments on hand. A Noblet 40 and an older Frank Holton (Albert system) instrument were found to have almost identical positioning of the lower tone holes. [The Holton's two F#/c# holes, which do not function simultaneously, are separated vertically by about 1 mm.] However, positioning of the holes on the Leblanc in question is definitely not the same, with the paired tone holes proportionately about 10% closer to the F/c tone hole than in the Noblet and Holton clarinets. Closer positioning is required, of course, due to the effectively larger size of the double opening.
I fail to see how this arrangement could have any noticeable effect on any tones other than F#/c#.
Regards,
John
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Author: jmcaulay
Date: 2001-09-19 21:06
In previous posts, I said:
"It seems curious that the low end of this instrument has a tone hole pattern functionally identical to the Albert instruments which have the "Patent" F#/c# mechanism."
and...
"The Holton's two F#/c# holes, which do not function simultaneously, are separated vertically by about 1 mm."
As the unusual Leblanc's doubled tone holes appear to be in the very same vertical position, these comments are, of course, not mutually consistent. What's up? On Albert clarinets [with the "Patent" F#/c#] one of the two almost identically positioned holes must open to produce the note while the E/b tone hole is covered, and the other opens to produce the note while the E/b tone hole is open. Hence, the two holes can't be in exactly the same vertical position. Other than that, it would have been a relatively simple matter to use only a single F#/c# tone hole.
Sorry about that...
John
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-09-20 12:32
I can't get that photo. Only three red crosses in squares, a logo, and the case.
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Author: jmcaulay
Date: 2001-09-25 22:34
Having sent Gordon Palmer the pictures of the Leblanc in question, he was kind enough to return some information which finally drove it into my brain that everyone (except me) has been talking about *vertically* adjacent pads moving in unison, not *horizontally* adjacent pads. So now I'm almost completely at ease with how this thing works, although I still have a couple of minor wonderings. But then, small wonderings always attack me when clarinet acoustics are the topic at hand.
Thanks, Gordon.
Regards,
John
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