 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2001-09-18 00:37
I pulled out my old student mouthpeice that sounded awful and took a file to it. (Yes, a file.) Scraped the inside, scraped the tip, designed it to be as different as possible from the POS it was before without "ruining" it.
Now it sounds better than my new Hite Premiere.
Anybody explain why a mouthpeice I proved to be bad suddenly becomes better than my Premiere after some amateur "refacing"?
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-09-18 00:43
Even a blind pig finds an occasional ear of corn if it roots around in the mud long enough. ;^)
jnk
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-09-18 14:14
David:
With all due respect to you, I would venture to say that while a Hite Premiere is among the better of the "inexpensive" mouth pieces, it's nothing to be in awe of.
Some time ago, when I did not know the difference, I used to tell peole that the generic mouthpieces I used were fine and I had no problems with them at all, and in fact, I did not need to spend upwards of $130.00 on a mouthpiece and ligature just to play well (My wife once said I was a "regular Liberace" with my clarinet. When I pointed out to her that Liberace played the piano, not the clarinet, she said, "Precisely my point.")
Then one day I tried some truly good mouthpieces and realized just how ignorant I had been, and how my inexperience allowed me to delude my self.
Beginners luck is a definite possibility, but I would let someone else either try it or hear you play with it before I made statements like that!
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Author: Bill F.
Date: 2001-09-18 14:20
I applaud what you did. The trouble is that mouthpiece work has to be very balanced. You can't do just one "thing" to a mouthpiece without compensating by adjusting other "things" (aspects) of the design. The idea would be to understand right off the bat what it is---consistently, in each case---about a poor mouthpiece design that warrants improvement, then address that with your tools. Thought I too am vulnerable to it, "mouthpiece magic" has gone too far. It really isn't all the mouthpiece (though it affects the palying more than the instrument); it's the player. B.F.
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-09-18 14:35
David P,
All joking aside, you've made a first step. I started learning about mouthpieces the same way, and while I blundered into the occasional successful operation, I also ruined many dozens of mouthpieces while learning ----- they call it "trial-and-error", and I can assure you, even though your initial attempt may have made an improvement, this learning process is very heavy on the "error" part! I'd suggest you obtain a whole box of cheapo used mouthpieces, clean and disinfect them, then start doing things to them, one step at a time, and trying to play them after each modification. Eventually you'll figure out what works and what doesn't. It's a long road, but if you enjoy such things, have at it!
Another point: Facing modifications have a much greater effect, "pound-for-pound", then interior modifications. Suggestion: Get a thick, very flat piece of plate glass, and a bunch of sheets of wet-or-dry sandpaper, 220-400-600 grits for starters. Now start modifying the facings, doing a very little bit at a time. NOW you'll see some rapid changes in how the mouthpiece plays --- sometimes better, sometimes worse. Eventually you'll get the hang of it (or run out of junk mouthpieces and/or quit in frustration first).
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-09-18 14:41
I occassionally reface [or try to] a scarred rail/tip cheap mp, using fine emery paper/cloth on a very flat surface using only a few strokes to flatten the table and then a very few strokes to "clean" the rails and tip. I then "polish" the surfaces on news paper and then test it for improvement [or otherwise]. I sometimes repeat the process but avoiding widening the tip area. HERESY?? Be Careful. Don
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-09-18 16:41
I once used a nail file (gag!) on a chip on the tip of a mouthpiece. It worked. What can I say?
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-09-18 17:23
I'm too embarrassed to even mention some of the horrible things I did to mouthpieces in my youth (and not-so-youth). "But I got better!"
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-09-18 18:55
Hang in there Dave!! I just got thru doing to a VD 5RV what I described, and its not worse, really believe its better playing, looks good no matter what. The increase in tip opening does help me play better!! Don
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-09-18 19:17
Maybe what Dave P. did to improve the piece was simply open the tip ("scraped the tip") a little. Student pieces are usually very closed and opening them up would definitely make them play better for an experienced player.
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Author: IHL
Date: 2001-09-18 21:02
Would getting a new mouthpiece improve the throat tones (I was complaining about them in a previous post)? Most of them are fine, thanks to your advice, but Bb still annoys me.
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Author: IHL
Date: 2001-09-18 21:03
(right now I'm using the Yamaha mouthpice that came with the instrument).
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-09-18 21:07
IHL,
Yes a new mouthpiece might improve your throat tones. However if the problem is only for Bb then it is most likely because the register hole does vent well enough. An experienced repairman could improve it by putting a cork pad and shape it such that more can go through when open.
You can also consider such invention as the one by Abe Galper:
http://www.avrahm-galper.sneezy.org/#Throat
-Sylvain
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-09-18 22:57
My experience is similar; the first mouthpiece I refaced played beautifully.
Now numbers 2 through 19 are another story, entirely.
Give us a shout when you have reproduced your results, woncha?
anji
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Author: David Pegel
Date: 2001-09-19 00:45
I'm gonna start looking for cheap POS mouthpeices to practice on...
I do realize that Hite Premieres are NOT the best mouthpeices in the world, but this other mouthpeice made the Hite look like a pro-model, it was that bad.
My Hite always sounded off with throat tones, this "new" mouthpeice makes them sound great.
My Hite had major problems with the break, not the "new" mouthpeice.
My Hite had trouble getting anything higher than an altissimo G; now I can progress to the high C much easier.
What I did: I scraped/filed the tip - like what Robert Small said - I scraped the interior "beak", I scraped the bottom of the opening down somewhat, and then I rounded down my edges to the opening.
Now I have decent volume, BETTER tone, easier break-crossing, and I'm happy. I'm still gonna make my goal to be to fashion the "perfect" mouthpeice for me.
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-09-19 01:55
Better call your Psychiatrist and set up a standing appointment.
Turn back before it's too late, look what has happened to Spiegs!
Seriously,
Have a look inside the new mouthpiece, sighting from the tenon end toward a light source... the side wall angle should be an indication of the sort of blank to seek.
Get 'em under $5, if you can. Most of your efforts are likely to be good doorstops.
Try to get a dozen of the same type, ya know, for consistency.
As the late, great Everett Matson suggested; make a little change and play it immediately. When it sounds pretty good, leave it alone until the next day.
Oh yeah, take some pitchas of your girlfriend/wife and family. When they no longer look like the pitcha, you may wish to spend some time widdem.
anji
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2001-09-20 02:46
One fun (and harmless) mouthpiece modification is to put some beeswax in the roof (dang, I bet there is a right word) and smooth it out. Going from concave to convex makes the mpc much brighter and maybe sharper. Then you can carve it up and see what that does, and then you can scrape it out.
The first time I did this I used chewing gum. (OK, way gross, but I was young.) It made a horrible old mpc usable. Unfortunately, that mpc was stolen along with my clarinet. Subsequent experiments have not resulted in improvements. But, no harm done, either.
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Author: donald nicholls
Date: 2001-09-22 11:54
i just spent 45 minutes working on "my students big sisters" mouthpiece (she kept on taking the one that i refaced for my student because she liked it so much, i'm trying to eradicate the jealousy).... and it's total crap, it'll always be crap no matter what i do to it. I can, however, make it easier to play and stop her from squeaking all the time (some of the time).
on the other hand, there are actually great mouthpieces out there hiding on old "dead clarinets"- while the intonation is often inferior, this is also not always the case. One of my favourite mouthpieces (Perier) was found on an old student clarinet. Also, old metal clarinets were sold with "Cundy-Bettony" mouthpieces made by Chedeville- hard to find these days as the mouthpiece fraternity have been on the lookout for them for a while now, but if you find one chances are it's a great sounding mouthpiece.
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