 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: raianne
Date: 2001-09-16 03:43
hello. i am new here. i played clarinet in school a while back. a long while....abotu ten years ago. i recently bought a wood clarinet on ebay for only 50 bucks. its in fairly good shape but i cant find anythign at all about the company. its by a company called sonore. it was made in italy. this clarinet does seem to sound fuzzy though. not the crisp sweet sound i remember back in school. of course, it has been quite some time since ive played but i think someone who was in band for several years and played reasonably well could make a better sound than this. does anyone know why it would sound fuzzy? before i take it to a music shop and they tell me i need to spend 100 dollars to redo the whole instrument id like some idea of what i might be looking at. i have also found a boosey and hawkes edgware clarinet from 1950s or earlier that i only paid 90 dollars for so im hoping that it will sound better....cause if not it may be operator error, and id hate to be back at square one. anyway, id appreciate it if someone could tell me about sonore or wy this instrument sounds fuzzy...it also at times seems to vibrate. a very noticable vibrate, maybe i need a different size reed? i am currently using a 2.5 rico royal. (im thinking i should go back to high school band) thanks again. raianne
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Author: KevinS
Date: 2001-09-16 06:28
Hi Raianne,
Welcome to Sneezy. I also picked up the clarinet after a long layoff. It's a great way to releive stress and relax. I'm sorry, I don't have specifics about your clarinet, but I can probably give you some fairly sound information on why it sounds fuzzy.
What you're probably experiencing is a combination of things with your new clarinet.
First, your clarinet(s) probably need to be looked over by a technician. Make friends with one of the technicians at your favorite store. It will help in the future! I don't remember ever buying anything off EBAY that didn't need at least a play conditioning and adjustment. You probably have a pad or two that need to be replaced. If the skin surface of the pads are damaged in any way, it will affect the seal around the toneholes, and that WILL make your clarinet sound fuzzy.
Second, look at the reeds you're using.
Reeds in general are a point of contention. There are many different brands, varying qualities, and very few good reeds in a box without "futzing" with them. Vandoren is still probably the most popular, but consistency is weak at best. As a returning player, you probably don't want to fool with scraping reeds just yet. Give Mitchell Lurie reeds, about a 2 1/5 or 3 strength a try, or even look at the Legere synthetic reeds. They're very consistent, and when matched with a decent mouthpiece, they sound very near to good quality cane reeds. If your reeds are unbalanced, your clarinet will sound fuzzy!
Next, If you're using an old mouthpiece, its very probable that the mouthpiece is warped, or the tip and/or rails could be damaged. This will also make your clarinet sound fuzzy, even if you have great reeds, and an excellent embouchure, your sound will still suffer. Unless your horns came with a good quality mouthpiece, look at investing some money in a decent new mouthpiece. I just bought a new Greg Smith mouthpiece. I couldn't BELIEVE the difference it made in my sound. Greg's mouthpieces are on the high side price wise. In the 175 to 200 dollar range. Even so, they are an excellent value. If your budget doesn't allow for that much, try looking at some of the sponsors on the sponsors page here. There are a couple of places you can get excellent quality mouthpieces at a very reasonable cost. Dave Speigelthal (sorry if I spelled it wrong, Dave) is a frequent contributor to this board. Dave does excellent work at refacing mouthpieces. You'll get a good player for a fraction of the cost of a new mouthpiece.
Most of all, have fun with the clarinet. You've stumbled upon a great forum for discussion here. There are many, many contributors to the board, and each one has valuable information to share with all of us.
Good Luck,
Kevin Stockdale
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Author: raianne
Date: 2001-09-16 11:44
hi. thanks for the reply. i figured this clarinet might need some tuning....but im thinking the boosey may be a much better investment so i dont want to spend any more money on this one right yet. i talked to the technician at the music store though and he said to bring it buy and hed take a look. it very well could be the mouth piece. its a cheap one....the music store has a similar one for 12$. anyway, the surface of the pads are all excellent. actually they look fairly new. that doesnt say they are all seating properly, but they look good. raianne
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-09-16 12:14
Definitely get a new mouthpiece. If you don't want to invest a lot of money yet in a mouthpiece, get a Hite Premier or Fobes Debut and mail order from a place like the Woodwind and Brasswind or International Music. Don't bother with that $12 one at the music store. It's very unlikely to be any better than what you have now.
The mouthpiece and reed are far more important to the sound quality than the instrument itself. So don't shortchange yourself here.
Another possible cause of a fuzzy sound is dirty tone holes. So in addition to looking at the pads, ask the technician to check that out.
Depending on the condition, the Boosey and Hawkes is probably the better horn. What model is it? However, take both to your technician and have him look them both over and see what he recommends. It wouldn't hurt to have both in decent playing condition so that you would have a backup for when one needs to go in for maintenance.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-09-16 15:15
I second the earlier posts that the "fuzziness" could come from some leaky pads but more likely is in the reed/mouthpiece combination rather than the instrument, especially if it is a general condition rather than just on a few notes. IMHO, it's too soon for you to be putting $175 -- $200 into a mouthpiece just yet because, when your chops strengthen and your embouchure stabilizes, you probably won't like a mouthpiece that feels good to you now. I also recommend you try a Hite Premier or Fobes Debut. They'll only set you back $20-$25 and are designed for beginners, which is what you are right now as far as mouthpiece/reed is concerned, despite your previous playing. Rico Royals are also fine for now. If you feel like the 2 1/2 is hard to blow or puts air into your sound when you play softly, try dropping back to a 2 for a little while.
I can't tell you anything about a Sonore but my guess is that Sonore is a stencil name rather than a manufacturer. Maybe Mark can shed some light on that from his Langwell's. The Edgware is a student model Boosey & Hawkes. If there are mechanical issues with the Sonore, the Edgware may give you some improvement but, based on the one I just reconditioned for our departmental secretary, I wouldn't expect too much. IMHO, there is a reason they usually sell for about $75 on eBay.
Probably the best advice I could give you for now is to find a good local teacher and take at least a few lessons. Let the teacher play and evaluate your instruments and give you advice on any work they may need an appropriate mouthpiece/reed combination. Spending money that way will pay better dividends, IMHO, than putting more into cheap clarinets. Nobody needs more than one of those.
Best of luck as you return to the clarinet. May it give you hours of enjoyment.
jnk
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-09-17 04:50
I don't want to sound like I am belittling your effort, but the Sonore is not a good instrument. Don't spend any real money on it, you'll never make up the investment.
The B&H Edgware can be a decent instrument. I would love to find some for $75.00, whether on E-bay or elsewhere. In excellent playing condition they sell for about L290 in the UK and between $400.00 to $500.00 in the US.
So, if the one you have has good wood, no splits and is otherwise in decent condition, it may well be worth spending some money on it to have it overhauled.
Have someone reputable do the work. You can probably get some help in that respect here on this forum.
Also, in the future, get someone who knows about instruments to help you pick one out before you put money out. If you don't know anyone, use this forum to ask your questions. You'll undoubtedly get some very useful replies.
I just recently came aboard here, but I'm truly surprised at how quickly so many well informed people issue pertinent replies to questions.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-09-17 07:07
In case anyone is interested, here are the recent completed listings for Boosey & Hawkes Edgware (and Edgeware [sic]) clarinets on eBay (all amounts in US$):
1. Auction ended 9/2. Opening bid set at $75. No bidders.
2. Auction ended 9/2. Selling price: $102
3. Auction ended 9/2. High bid $71. Did not meet seller's reserve. Seller relisted and ...
4. Auction ended 9/9 This time the instrument sold for $275 BUT seller misrepresented the instrument as a Buffet E11 !!!!! and the instrument sold to a buy-it-now bidder so there were no other bids on the instrument close to the buyer's.
5. Auction ended 9/10 Selling price: $65
6. Auction ended 9/13 Selling price: $56
Throw out the misrepresented item (it was misrepresented both times, BTW), and the average price is $74.33. Even with the misrepresented item (both times), the average high bid is only about $114.
The only place Edgwares sell for $400-$500 in the states is in full-price music stores -- and probably not very often there. For other comments on the Edgware, search the Klarinet archives. You will find many opinions. A teacher or repair tech can who can actually see the instruments is your best bet to tell you which one to use/perhaps fix up. I wouldn't put more than about $50 into either one, though, myself.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Peter
Date: 2001-09-18 15:08
I don't think most of those instruments on E-bay are necessarily in excellent playing condition, to begin with, but if you look at the bids on any of those auction pages, you will see that the amounts people generally bid are unrealistic, bargain basement prices. Even for the "good" instruments.
And there are instruments being sold there at bargain basement prices. If and when you find one that is truly good; if and when the seller gets frustrated with having to relist the instrument several times until he/she finally accepts what is offered, etc.
It's too iffy for me to buy that way. You can make several horror movies and their sequels from the stories that arise from many such sales.
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Author: raianne
Date: 2001-09-19 00:46
well, i got the boosey and hawkes clarinet in. it needs a pad or two, and the finish is worn pretty badly on a few of the keys. there is not a single crack or chip. i took it by the music store. the owner wasnt there and the guy at the counter was more interested in talking to me than looking at the instrument, but did say it was in great shape. obviously he works on comission. he says that it will be about $120 to get all the corks and pads replaced. maybe it could use it, but some of the corks are fine. so are some of the pads. most of the pads actually look fairly new, but one looks like somehting chewed on it. the sound is pretty good though, even for someone who hasnt played in a very long time. the mouthpiece says boosey and hawkes on it still. so, all in all im satisfied. for someone who doesnt have the money to go spend hudreds or thousands of dollars on a clarinet i think it works. i just want to play for myself and my kids, not play in an orchestra (well not any time soon anyway). as for the sonore, it is harder to play than the boosey. it takes more air to push through to make a sound. its slightly lower pitched than the boosey. i changed to a vandoren reed and it sounded like a different instrument though. i dont like it quite as well as the boosey, and i still havent found out anythign about the year it was made or anything, but i may keep it as a back up or just to have around. thanks for the input.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-09-19 03:31
Raianne,
If your are happy with it, that's the important thing. I am concerned about your comment that "one of the pads looks like something chewed on it" because that could be the beginning of something bad. Does it look like the something that chewed on it might have been a moth (or a moth larva)? Clarinets that have been stored or sitting around unused for awhile sometimes pick them up. They seem to like the pads and, once they get into the case and the instrument, they can lay eggs in the pads and the case lining (Yuck.). In my experience, once you have them, you need to fumigate the case (opening it and setting it out in the hot sun for a day or two might work) and probably replace all the pads at the same time, otherwise the problem perpetuates. (I had to do this with an old wooden Eb clarinet I bought.) And the bad news is they can migrate to other instruments. Search the Klarinet archives on "moth" for information.
Peter, your first message said you'd love to find an Edgware for $75. At that time, you said nothing about excellent playing condition *at that price.* I assumed you meant that you thought an Edgware in any condition would be a bargain at $75. I simply showed you where to find some. It sounded to me like you didn't believe my comment about their market value. I just wanted to provide some evidence that I had support for my opinion. EBay is a wholesale market -- a good place to buy low, not the best place to sell high. But a place where one can offer an instrument to a wide audience of potential (often quite knowledgable) buyers. Buying there entails taking on risk and that leads to lower prices. In my experience, however, for someone who is careful and has some idea of what they are doing, for every horror story, there are likely to be at least 20 happy endings, a few of which will be very happy endings. Of course, one should assume that an instrument that old being sold in that venue is likely to need some repair. That also works to keep prices down. In its day, thousands learned to play clarinet on the Edgware but the fact is that now it is an old student model instrument. As such (and I'm speaking collectively here), it doesn't have much market value. I hope that Raianne will get more than her money's worth of pleasure out of the instrument and, if she plays it for and with her children, I think she will. But (unfortunately) I also think she or anyone else in the US would be hard pressed to sell it for $400, even with a complete overhaul. Too bad because I'd love to see our secretary do half that well with hers.
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Author: raianne
Date: 2001-09-19 04:10
Jack....i dont know how to explain it. the pad is the A key....the top part of the pad has some of the plastic like casing material torn away and the part of the pad is just missing....in little sections almost. like maybe a mouse chewed it...of course a mouse couldnt have gotten in the case, and theres no evidence of a mouse in the case (thank god). i guess it looks like maybe someone chipped away a piece of the pad with their fingernail. the man at the music store said that it would be 120 for everything, but seemed to barely look at the instrument. should i have it all replaced at once, corks and all? thanks. raianne...ill do the search on moths. maybe ill find some pictures.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-09-19 11:25
raianne wrote:
>
> the man at the music store said that it
> would be 120 for everything, but seemed to barely look at the
> instrument. should i have it all replaced at once, corks and
> all?
Yes I think you should get it all done at once. Otherwise you'll be going in every couple of months to get something fixed and you will end up spending more.
Just in case it is moth larvae, fumigate the case anyway while the other work is going on.
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Author: raianne
Date: 2001-09-19 12:24
i did a search on sneezy for moth. the closest i got was mother, and got two stories that were rather interesting but irrelevant.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-09-19 14:21
Hi Raianne,
Sorry I led you astray with the search information. I'm not sure whether you seached Sneezy or the Klarinet Archives (on the home page) but I meant the Klarinet Archives. I searched on moth and got 616 hits. On the first page, every one was "mother" so I see what you mean. Go to the Klarinet Archives and search on "moths" without the quotes and you should get 17 messages (no pictures). The singular (which I figured would return moth and moths) turned out not to be specific enough. You might also try searching on "moth balls" without the quotes. That might or might not turn up a few more messages.
If the work is done well, $120 is reasonable. Around here (St. Louis) a basic repadding at the repair shops of the big band instrument stores is typically about $100. Tenon corks tend to run around $12 each. If they are good people, they will clean and oil the wood (and the tone holes) while they have the keys off.
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Author: raianne
Date: 2001-09-19 15:36
Jack,
can they also replate the keys? the keys have some bad wear.Im guessing it sat for along time without having been cleaned....i can hear my band teaching griping...if you dont wipe the instrument down the oils from your skin will eat away the plating....the a key looks llike its yellowing. maybe there is brass underneath?maybe its just that dirty. ive oiled the wood as well as i can around the keys and all and inside. do you have any tips on oiling it? i think i make more mess than good. how often should i oil it? ill do the search and see what i can come up with. thanks. raianne
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Author: Dee
Date: 2001-09-19 16:06
Yes they can replate the keys. If you decide to do this, you need to do it at the time they do a total overhaul as they must remove the keys from the instrument and remove all the pads from the keys. This will probably add about $100 to the price of the total overhaul. It's not the cost of the plating material so much but the additional labor. When you get done, you will have a horn that not only plays like new but looks like new.
I had my 1940 Pruefer Artist replated as a "reward" for my older daughter when she had finished her first year of clarinet and to encourage her to go on to a second year. She had been distressed that although she had a better playing instrument, it didn't look as nice as everyone else. She played clarinet for several more years before she decided to become an oboe player.
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Author: raianne
Date: 2001-09-19 16:35
it might be worth the 100 dollars to get it fixed. thanks for the info. ill have to see if i can find someone around here who will do it.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2001-09-20 03:47
Often, music stores have to send keys out for replating so if you go for new pads and plating be prepared to do without the instrument for several weeks. (Around here, even the pads could take that long.) The last time I checked, the repair shops in St. Louis were sending clarinet keys to Kansas City!!! BTW, silver plating probably won't cost much more than nickle plating. However, keep in mind that if you do the replating, you will be putting over $200 into an instrument that probably wouldn't sell for more than $150 and (possibly less) so understand that your return must be in pleasure. Before you put that kind of money into an Edgware, you might want to check around and see what you can get for around $300 (the $220 you save from not fixing up the Edgware plus the $75 or so you could probably get selling it as is). If you can find a used Buffet E11 in good playing condition at that price, I think you would be ahead ot the game. Also, for $300, you could probably pick up a "late" model Evette & Schaeffer (K15000 or higher) or a Noblet model 45, put $120 into fixing it up and have alot more instrument for your money. Just a thought.
Best regards,
Jack
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Author: raianne
Date: 2001-09-20 04:05
You must want my husband to kill me. The next time another clarinet comes in this house will be when i do join an orchestra. I bought an old selmer with the intentions of fixing it up. i got it at a pawn shop and it needed new pads and corks. i never had it fixed because i put it off till i bought a wood clarinet, and sold the plastic selmer. now i have bought two wood clarinets in one weeks time....there wont be any more trading im afraid. besides, i actually do like the boosey. its simple, easy to play. i dont need an air compressor hooked up to my lungs to blow it. it has a good sound even though it needs a few pads. and for now at least its all im going to have. maybe one day ill buy a newer one, but even then my oldest child would be at least almost six and soon be ready to start playing. (he already plays a recorder) i will look into silver plating though. that seems interesting. i know here there isnt anyone in either music shop that repads ect, i know one store sends them to the next town about an hour away and im not sure who the other man has do it. i forgot to ask a time frame....i dont think i could stand a couple of weeks wait time. im already up to an hour+ a day in practice time. have you ever been into an applebees resteraunt? we have htem here in south carolina and they have old instruments hanging on the wall as part of the decor. there is this clarinet that has been on the wall for at least ten years. im real tempted to try and see what it is. never know. there might be a gold mine hanging on the wall. maybe i could trade it in for my sonore. anyway, thanks for the info. much appreciated.
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