 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Matthew
Date: 2001-08-29 14:19
could any one tell me the main differences between silver and nickle plated keys. What is the quality differnece? Or is it just price? Could you also recomend some good advance (step) wooden clarinets and what is a good price range? Thank you for your help!
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Author: Eoin McAuley
Date: 2001-08-29 14:50
Clarinet keys are made from a metal alloy which is called nickel silver. They are then plated with either Nickel or with Silver. Nickel plating is cheaper than Silver plating. Nickel tends to turn a dull grey over time. Silver looks much nicer but over time tarnishes to a sort of brown colour. This can be cleaned off if you careful.
I personally like the feel of silver better than the feel of nickel. My fingers seem to slide on it easier, which is very important for the little fingers. Other people seem to report different experiences.
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Author: William
Date: 2001-08-29 14:50
Silver is a more durable finish--nickel often wears off and reveals the base metal surface which appears "dirty." Also, IMHO, silver looks nicer and feels better to the touch. I guess the real difference is simply cosmetics--and economics as silver is more expensive. But I think it is worth it. If you want real "class," go for gold. (But you will need a silver base to put it on) I have an R-13 (70,000 series) plated in gold, and everyone always thinks that it sounds great, even when it (me) really doesn't. Showbiz glitz counts for something on "the big stage." But silver is always "classy." Good Clarineting!!!!!!
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Author: David Spiegelthal
Date: 2001-08-29 16:37
To make matters even more complicated:
Most nickel-plated keys nowadays are plated over a copper pre-plating, so that when your nickel wears through, you see exposed copper (not exposed nickel-silver). I believe this is done because the nickel plating doesn't bond well directly to the key base metal.
Also, many older instruments have keys which are solid nickel-silver (a.k.a. "German Silver" which, as has been pointed out before, is misleadingly named because it doesn't actually have any silver in the alloy) --- these are my personal favorites because, although they tarnish, there is no plating to wear off (ever), and they have enough friction so that fingers don't slip off the keys as easily as with nickel-plated keys.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-08-29 16:58
Matthew -
Nickel vs. silver is a matter of which feels better. Nickel has a smoother surface. If you like it, it makes it easier to slide from one key to another when necessary. If you don't like it, it's too slippery for reliable finger placement.
My personal preference is for silver, or, as David says, German silver. The slippery nickel surface bothers me. But that's me, not you. In fact, I never have the keys polished. For me, the duller, the better.
In general, student-level and initial step-up clarinets all have nickel plated keys. Silver plating is available on the top and next-to-top models, usually for an additional $100 or so.
Nickel often produces skin rashes. To test, tape a nickel coin to the inside of your upper arm and leave it in place for 2 or 3 days. Then take it off, wait 5 minutes and look for a white ring around a reddened impression of the coin. If it's there, you have an allergy to nickel and should get silver-plated keys.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-29 18:30
The price difference is no longer what it was in the past. There are environmental concerns w/the nickel-plating process that add to the costs these days. Disregard the list prices, query your dealer & talk to others who have bought recently. mw
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Author: Anji
Date: 2001-08-29 20:44
The second part of your question has gone unanswered...
If you are looking for a quality, wooden horn both MW and Dave Spiegelthal are
reputable sellers (and players) of the clarinet.
Dave has a collection of killer players going cheap.
If you have the bucks, MW has a Yamaha YCL-CX that is a BRILLIANT,
if little-known and under-rated instrument.
The bottom line;
If you have $1000 to spend, you have loads of choices.
If you have $500 to spend, maybe a repaired horn or 'no-name'.
If you have $250 or less to spend, buy the best mouthpiece and reeds.
Drop me a line off-post, if you like.
anji
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Author: LynnL
Date: 2001-08-29 20:55
Although the base alloy material for the keys are referred to as nickel-silver or german silver, they contain no silver at all. Rather they are an alloy of copper-nickel-zinc containing in the range of 17-27% zinc and 8-18% Ni. The use of the name silver arises from their colour, which ranges from soft ivory to silvery white as the nickel content is increased.
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Author: jan
Date: 2001-08-29 22:06
nickel also causes asthma to act up in some people.
sounds weird? don't ask me. My pediatrician and 2 other doctors also told me that.
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Author: Suzanne
Date: 2001-08-30 05:50
Does it make any difference in the sound? I have heard stories both ways, but I am not convinced it does. If anything, I have always picked clarinets with nickel keys because they always sounded better, but I doubt it was because of the KEYS. I think it just happened to turn out that way.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2001-08-30 06:01
I think it is just a matter of preference. I played my Evette Master for 30 years and the nickle was only worn off in spots. When I had it overhauled for my daughter I had it plated in silver, also replated my R-13 in silver. I can't tell much difference in feel, if any difference the nickle feels a bit nicer to me. Also the nickle color looks nicer to me. The cost difference of $100 amortized over 30 years works out to just $3.33 per year... so what?
If you ever want to re-sell, the silver will be easier to move. If you are a player and a pack rat, just get what looks and feels nicer to you.
If the truth is known, the horn I have which is the prettiest and feels the nicest is the 1925 Buffet. There was no plating on the keys and I just had it polished up and left as is. It feels great and looks great, a little yellow tinge to the shiny silver colored keys. It will probably go much yellower if I don't keep polishing it. What the hey, it really doesn't matter what it looks like, I like it's sound, and I also like the extra little features on this particular horn.
FYI when car parts are chrome plated they first go copper and then nickle followed by chrome. It is called triple plating. The copper goes on first because you add layer after layer making it thicker and thicker. This allows you to polish it nice and smooth to get out any imperfections before the nickle goes on. The chrome will not go onto steel or copper. My guess is that if the platers are doing copper now it is because the manufacturers probably have cheapened the base metal so the platers need to have the bulk to make up for this... copper will fill in minor porosity which you might be able to avoid with better material used in the initial casting. You could write to the manufacturer and ask why they are using copper... but I bet they won't say it is because they decided to save a dime on the key metal. (Just a guess!)
Terry
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-08-31 03:29
Personally I like David's "unobtainium" as a plating material - see posts on differences in plating metals on ligatures and sound. A little true levity helps bring me back to reality (every once in a while - unfortunately it does not last long). Some of the metals used in plating do indeed produce allergic reactions. Our sister agency - OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Agency) - mine is CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) - has vast files on workers problems in the plating industry - partially the plating chemical process but also the metal's themselves. There are immunologic tests (if any one wants to really go see their physician allergist) that can detect allergy to a number of metals. The immune system is a very interesting and amazing system and it may need "priming" (in those susceptible individuals) to a particular metal before full allergic reaction is seen in subsequent exposures. My recent search on unobtainium revealed no complaints or documented allergic problems - the perfect plating material, and it never wears off !
Best regards,
The Doctor
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Author: mw
Date: 2001-08-31 04:02
Omar --- respectfully --- I think there is a far closer nexus to ligature (thickness?) plating & sound v. keyplating & sound. Don't you? mw
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2001-08-31 10:56
Dear mw and all,
There is no direct comparison about plating and sound between the ligature and key plating - just a little lax bit of levity. Perhaps the only serious part was not doing allergy skin testing yourself.
The Doctor
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2001-08-31 13:09
William said "Silver is a more durable finish--nickel often wears off ....."
I am not sure what 'durable' means to him, but nickel is far harder and therefore far more wear resistant.
Nickel is far more slippery, especially for a person with sweaty fingers. Slipping off spatula keys can be a problem.
Some silver plating is thick and lasts very well indeed, like on silver cutlery.
However it is unfortunately common for the silver plating these days to be very thin. It is impossible to tell by looking at a new instrument.
Some silver plating has other metals (rhodium or paladium I think) to greatly increase tarnish resistance. Sadly and cynically, manufacturers probably mainly now do whatever is cheapest.
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