 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2026-05-06 20:11
I realize most of you have had more than enough of posts dealing with double-lip embouchure. But, I'm wondering if any of you teach -or were taught- double-lip from the very start. Most double-lip players I know seem to have been converted to it at some point. The only beginners I have are young adults. I teach them single and double-lip embouchure and let them choose what works best for them. Invariably, they choose double lip.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
Post Edited (2026-05-07 00:41)
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Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2026-05-06 23:13
Double-lip feels natural (for some) and prevents people from biting too hard. I have no problem with a beginner learning it, provided the rest of their embouchure is up to par as well.
Andres Cabrera
West Coast Wind Symphony
https://WestCoastWindSymphony.com
sbwe@sbmusic.org
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Author: kdk
Date: 2026-05-08 00:55
I started a beginner a number of years ago with double lip. Actually, she started herself with it and seemed uncomfortable with her teeth on the mouthpiece, so I helped her develop it. It happened that she was the only beginner I had started in decades - most of my students had been middle- or high-school band players. She continued playing double-lip until high school marching band made single lip more attractive. She's now in her first year of university and, I assume, still playing single, but she has a wealth of experience to lean on if she decides to go back or interchange them as situations suggest.
She started the way most clarinet beginners start, with the lips in a more or less undisciplined circle around the mouthpiece (like sucking on a popsicle). When I tried to get her to pull her upper lip back more firmly and put her top teeth on the mouthpiece, she couldn't (or didn't like it). Since I'd played double-lip for (at the time) forty years, I felt hypocritical trying to keep her away from it, so I taught her to tuck her upper lip under her teeth and firm her embouchure up. In her case, it would have been hard to get her to accept single-lip, so I basically went with the flow.
When Anthony Gigliotti suggested double-lip as a temporary cure for a reed-pinch squeak I had developed, all he basically told me to do was pull my upper lip under my teeth about the same amount as my lower lip (other double-lip players take in less upper lip). His embouchure approach was to pull the upper lip tightly *against* the upper teeth (not under) and essentially use the upper lip in that position the same way as in double-lip. It raises the soft palate, reduces upward jaw pressure and "focuses" the sound. So the switch, in practical terms, wasn't much more than pulling my lip under. It did cure the squeaks pretty much instantly. It also felt more comfortable, so I never went back.
Karl
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Author: ruben
Date: 2026-05-09 00:37
Karl: I seem to recall that Gigliotti would ask students that played single-lip to begin a practice session by playing double lip for a while. This activates the upper lip, which should not just be "dead' and neutral but should curve at least a little bit inwards.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2026-05-09 07:35
I think it must have depended on the student and whether or not he/she had a tendency to bite or "pinch." He didn't suggest double-lip to me until early in my second (last) year of grad school (I had already done my Bachelor's with him). As I've described, it was to solve a "chirp" problem I had developed fairly suddenly whenever I started a chalumeau note with my tongue. I never knew any of his other students to play double-lip, and I don't recall having heard that he taught anyone else to use it as a warm-up starter. He may have taught it as a technique earlier in his teaching career, and it was obviously something he had in his mind when a student (like me) seemed to need it. He did talk about using the upper lip actively, as it's used in double-lip, pulled back against the teeth and pressing down on the mouthpiece beak.
Karl
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Author: Klar1netteF
Date: 2026-05-09 21:32
I was not exactly started on double lip- but I was definitely taught it as a beginner. After a year or so of playing, switching teachers, and getting my first Vandoren mouthpiece, I switched to double lip, which I never before considered. I agree that it is not for all people, but it seems like an effective way to start student because of its intuitiveness and the pain when biting.
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Author: David Eichler
Date: 2026-05-11 05:04
"This activates the upper lip, which should not just be "dead' and neutral but should curve at least a little bit inwards." I beg to differ. Joe Allard's method for single lip advocates that the upper lip be completely limp, and I think it works great. While you need somewhat of an active upper lip for double-lip, I don't see the need for one with single-lip, provided you have an efficient single-lip embouchure, which the Allard method develops.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2026-05-11 05:27
David Eichler wrote:
>[Ruben wrote] "This activates the upper lip, which should not just be "dead'
> and neutral but should curve at least a little bit inwards."
>I beg to differ. Joe Allard's method for single lip advocates
> that the upper lip be completely limp, and I think it works
> great. While you need somewhat of an active upper lip for
> double-lip, I don't see the need for one with single-lip,
> provided you have an efficient single-lip embouchure, which the
> Allard method develops.
Well, this is a debate better taken up among Daniel Bonade, Anthony Gigliotti, and Joe Allard. For the record, Gigliotti never said (at least to me) that using the upper lip actively was the only valid way to approach a clarinet embouchure. He found it worked well for him, so that's what he taught. Perhaps, if he had studied with Allard instead of Bonade, he might have agreed with your position. That you don't "see the need," though, doesn't invalidate other approaches that work for other players.
I for one don't understand how to make my upper lip limp. I'm sure Joe Allard made that clearer over an extended course of study. And obviously, it worked well for him and, apparently, for you. So, it's less a difference of opinion than a divergence of successful approaches.
Karl
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Author: David Eichler
Date: 2026-05-12 00:10
kdk wrote:
> David Eichler wrote:
>
> >[Ruben wrote] "This activates the upper lip, which should not
> just be "dead'
> > and neutral but should curve at least a little bit inwards."
> >I beg to differ. Joe Allard's method for single lip advocates
> > that the upper lip be completely limp, and I think it works
> > great. While you need somewhat of an active upper lip for
> > double-lip, I don't see the need for one with single-lip,
> > provided you have an efficient single-lip embouchure, which
> the
> > Allard method develops.
>
> Well, this is a debate better taken up among Daniel Bonade,
> Anthony Gigliotti, and Joe Allard. For the record, Gigliotti
> never said (at least to me) that using the upper lip actively
> was the only valid way to approach a clarinet embouchure. He
> found it worked well for him, so that's what he taught.
> Perhaps, if he had studied with Allard instead of Bonade, he
> might have agreed with your position. That you don't "see the
> need," though, doesn't invalidate other approaches that work
> for other players.
>
> I for one don't understand how to make my upper lip limp. I'm
> sure Joe Allard made that clearer over an extended course of
> study. And obviously, it worked well for him and, apparently,
> for you. So, it's less a difference of opinion than a
> divergence of successful approaches.
>
> Karl
FYI, a lot of players studied with both Allard and Bonade, including the one from whom I learned Allard's technique, Victor Morosco.
I don't think it is so much that you can't get a high-quality result with single-lip and an active upper lip. I think the point of Allard's method is that it allows maximum flexibility and is less likely to result in unproductive tension. I think learning Allard's technique really requires a teacher who studied with him or who studied with one of his more accomplished students. Allard had a system of exercises that helped to establish the technique. Ultimately, I think the result is that it provides all the benefits of double-lip without discomfort in the upper lip for people with sharpish upper teeth.
Post Edited (2026-05-12 02:21)
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