 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2025-03-26 23:38
I'm starting on Albert system, and the progress has, quite literally, all the instability and fall-downs of baby's first steps. The theory -- when I muster the patience to do it -- is simply a (glacially) slow chromatic scale to try and locate the tone holes and keys.
Unbelieveable that jazzers prefer these because it's easier to move from note to note! I get that, but at this stage (for me) nothing is harder!
My "why" for this project is mostly a "why not"? I've heard the sound is addictive.
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2025-03-27 00:03
Hi Bill,
I'm not sure what advice you're looking for...but if you're using a period instrument (like late 1880s or so) - you might find lowering the thumb rest a bit will help. I shellac'd a 3/16" thickness piece of cork to the underside of my thumbrest, and then placed surgical tubing over it. Was going to be a temporary thing - but here I am nearly 20 years later and still use it that way. I've replaced the cork once, and the surgical tubing a handful of times.
The main thing is just to get used to the F#/F difference (B/Bb). To me, it seems like every Albert is a little different, so it might be beneficial to determine which fingers to use for various notes/colors you're going for. (For instance, the 1+3 right hand fingering is sometimes better than the 1+2+sliver right hand, etc. Or might be better in one register and worse in another, etc.)
The fingering charts here on the bboard are pretty good too.
Otherwise, I can't think of much advice to offer. That right hand will need to adjust to the stretch a bit...so I'd play tunes as soon as you can and get away from too stringent of fingering exercises - otherwise your hand might develop some pain/cramps. Try to keep it relaxed and work on fingerings while you play...you can always come back to fingering exercises once your hand adjusts to the stretch.
Just my thoughts. Enjoy and have fun!
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Bill
Date: 2025-03-27 03:06
Good advice Fuzzy! I did launch into the Saint-Saens clarinet sonata, then thought I'd better start with some slow chromatic tones. I'll try some simpler etudes. Thanks!
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-03-28 02:57
Bill wrote:
" I'm starting on Albert system, and the progress has, quite literally, all the instability and fall-downs of baby's first steps. The theory -- when I muster the patience to do it -- is simply a (glacially) slow chromatic scale to try and locate the tone holes and keys..."
Uebel Boehm system clarinets played/sounded closer to the "German" sound than any other clarinet I tried.
I wonder if a Uebel combined with a German mouthpiece (made for Boehm) such as Gleichweit would produce the sound close to what you are looking for.
I also know an excellent player who uses Vandoren German MP on Buffet R13 and sounds great- very soft and full sound.
Post Edited (2025-03-29 07:28)
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2025-03-28 06:25
there is no advantage to playing albert system if you want a big sound. get a large bore vintage selmer or conn and develop some attitude!
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Author: m1964
Date: 2025-03-28 18:55
Not to forget the Selmer Recital.
I have an older A clarinet and it sounds very very close to Oehler system clarinets, much closer than Buffets and even other Selmers.
Post Edited (2025-03-29 07:28)
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Author: Bill
Date: 2025-03-29 00:14
So happy to report I'm doing much better on my Albert!!!
The Albert is just a curiosity. I do have every Selmer Paris model from Winged Globe to Centered Tone. But I wanted to expand. My favorite Selmer for a really big sound is the "55."
I'm thrilled that I can produce some good sounds and do some scales on it now. It set me back $60. Got it with new pads from a young man just learning to overhaul instruments. Old Carl Fischer not marked either HP or LP so assuming it's HP.
I'm starting to really have fun with it!
Bill Fogle
Ellsworth, Maine
(formerly Washington, DC)
Post Edited (2025-03-29 00:15)
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2025-03-29 02:26
That's great, Bill!
I would have never found the instrument I've fallen in love with had I followed the normal recommendations. I followed those recommendations for far too long and cheated myself out of a lot of fun! Haha!
Hope you continue to enjoy the journey!
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2025-03-30 19:50
playing jazz clarinet is all about spontaneous improvisation. using a clarinet with a profoundly different key system is going to be difficult as you will have to think ahead of your fingerings -rather than just let your creative thoughts flow
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2025-03-30 22:32
Super20dan,
I wouldn't really consider an Albert as being "...a profoundly different key system..." F/F#/B/Bb - other than that you're pretty much good to go. The stretch and lack of the alternative fingerings you're accustomed to are really the only adjustments necessary. (At least that was my experience.)
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
[Edit] Coming back to Boehm is another story entirely, though - as there are so many touchpieces in the way that I can't help but to bump them open inadvertently. Hahaha!
Post Edited (2025-03-30 22:34)
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Author: petrosv
Date: 2025-04-05 00:17
Albert system say an 1800's Buffet (which I played for a year) and an R13 are to me different instruments. I also played a Ubel german system with a german MP with the string.
The Buffett Albert had a huge tone (using a vandoren 5JB) huge. But not the same as the german system. The Ubel had the best tone IMO, deep rich just it's own character.
The major issue I had with the Albert was tone hole placement had to adjust to it and there were only 2 rings. Also the thumb rest was an issue not placed right for my hand.
I think the way the Buffet Albert blew was super open and free very different from a modern Buffet but it was fun to play and I could get wild sounds and pitch bends. Glad it's going better fingering was the main thing I had to worked on...
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2025-04-06 17:59
I started off in 1952 on a Simple System Hawkes Stentorian and found my way around that, and then I went over to the dark side and bought a second-hand Edgware. I found the transition from Simple to Boehm took about a couple of days. Mind, I was 13 at the time, when new skills are learned easily. Since then I've mostly played Boehm, but I always like to have a couple of Simple/Albert claris on hand so that I never lose the muscle memory. I find that now I can switch between them fairly seamlessly
Tony F.
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Author: davidjsc
Date: 2025-05-19 06:38
I can play Albert / simple system.
As an oboist my initial impression was, in comparison to the Boehm system, it felt more like oboe fingering. Things like the forked Bb (forked F on oboe) and almost non-existent cross-fingering options gave me the sense that if an oboist were to design a clarinet, this is what they'd come up with.
The trickiest aspects I have found playing Albert system is the weirdness with thumb F and F# and when you need to move from those to the A above it can get tricky. Because of the thumb-only F and how the hole is smooth, it can become easy for one's thumb to move about or get misplaced, so often I'll use one of the right-hand side keys to vent which helps better keep my hand and thumb positioned.
As for fingering charts, what I found I had to do was go through note by note with a tuner and test out all the variant fingering - and then make up a finger chart that works best with my clarinet. Unlike the Boehm system, there does seem to be a little more variety in fingerings and what may word for one instrument, may not work in tune for another.
I have found that the Albert plays nicely with some types of traditional folk music - such as Latvian or Finnish music, it just seems that the note progressions and key signatures often end up meshing well with the Albert system. I find that it lends itself easier to play in sharp keys than flat keys. No clue why, but just something I've noticed. I have also found it easier to cross the break upwards than on a Boehm.
DSC
~~ Alto Clarinet; Bass Clarinet; B-flat and C Boehm Clarinets; Albert C Clarinet; Oboe ~~
Post Edited (2025-05-19 06:41)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-05-19 16:44
Like oboe fingering systems that have evolved from 2/3 key Baroque oboes, simple/Albert system (and German and Oehler system) clarinets have evolved from 5 key Classical era clarinets, so many of the basic fingerings on them are the same.
With oboes, the way Bb and C are played have been the most dramatic change and some simple/Albert systems have the Barret side key for Eb/Bb and F/C as seen on simple and thumbplate system oboes, although the clarinet version has a ring key for LH3 to close the Eb/Bb vent to make a C#/Db-D#/Eb or G#/Ab-A#/Bb trill easy or passages like lower Db-Eb-F or upper Ab-Bb-C easy by keeping the lowest of the side keys held down instead of sliding about with the Eb/Bb and F/C keys on others.
The Klose-Buffet 'Boehm system' clarinet was a complete redesign in the 1800s based on the system of ring keys as devised by Theobald Boehm which favour a basic scale of C Major starting with all fingers down plus the RH pinky for low C (raising each finger in turn gives a C Major scale), over D Major scale starting with all six fingers down and releasing each finger in turn.
Both evolved and invented fingering systems have their advantages and disadvantages over each other - evolved ones favour playing in sharp keys and invented ones favour playing in more flat keys.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ClarinetVirtuoso
Date: 2025-05-20 18:27
I have a pair of Jedson Albert clarinets which were given to me by Jo Roberts of the British Clarinet and Saxophone Society. I had them repadded by a technician at Boosey and Hawkes when I worked in the showroom. The clarinets play beautifully and with a big open sound. I also have a C Albert system which is in a case that would have gone on a soldier’s belt. It is a lovely clarinet and makes a nice open sound. At the other end of the scale I have a pair of Wurlitzer Oehler system clarinets with proper mouthpieces (4 in total) with the traditional cord to tie the reeds on (blattschnur). I love these instruments as I can make a similar sound to Dieter Klocker.
Professionally I play a pair of Orsi Classic 3/4 Boehm system Bb and A clarinets, made in cocobolar wood and make a wonderful sound. I play a Leblanc basset A clarinet and have just ordered a B flat basset joint for a Buffet clarinet I own. I have an Uebel basset horn which is great to play and makes the ideal basset horn sound. At the other end of the clarinets, I play a Noblet C clarinet, a Selmer D clarinet both of which are lovely and a Noblet Eb clarinet which belonged to Anton Weinberg. Anton adjusted the mouthpiece to correct tuning and tonal problems which really improves the instrument’s performance.
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Author: davidjsc
Date: 2025-06-14 21:42
@ Tony F re: "so that I never lose the muscle memory. I find that now I can switch between them fairly seamlessly"
~ ~ ~ ~
A couple years ago when learning the Albert what I'd sometimes do was play a passage or scale study on my Boehm C, and then play the exact same on my Albert C, and switch back and forth - so my hands and brain could feel the similarities and differences, as well as where I would sometimes stall or get stuck due to anticipation.
Doing this also served a non-musical purpose: as at the time I was being assessed for possible motor neurological issues (thankfully none, and I am fine) and I was trying to use this challenge going back and forth between instruments as a means to test and exercise my brain / hand coordination.
What I found was this ended up helping with playing the Albert, because it seemed to train my brain to now subconsciously work harder or focus on those problem fingerings.
DSC
~~ Alto Clarinet; Bass Clarinet; B-flat and C Boehm Clarinets; Albert C Clarinet; Oboe ~~
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