 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: JustBored
Date: 2025-02-16 07:01
I am really picky about reeds. I will accept like 1 out of 20-30 reeds. I don't like to play on reeds that don't sound or play the way I like. I only use Vandoren blue box traditional reeds. It seems the quality has gone down now. I can't even find 1 reed I like out of like 2 boxes. I think the solution for me would be if somebody can make an exact replica of the dimensions of the reed that I like. Is there a way that this can be done?
Post Edited (2025-02-16 07:12)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tom H
Date: 2025-02-16 07:11
I had a friend who made his own reeds, but it seemed like a lot of work. I use the same as you (Vandoren 2.5s) and find that about half of them are OK for me. But I'm not as fussy as I used to be.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-02-16 07:18
https://store.weinermusic.com/products/robert-dilutis-reed-machine-for-bb-clarinet?srsltid=AfmBOopMX4XWGDAyFCqARL0sX23-u3Sd3dtnqSjpmDGpYpOAdHZVicx9
But your question now answered, you don't want this IMHO, and not just because of the prohibitive price.
Two pieces of cane, even from the same stock are not identical. Even two places in the same cane reed of pretty much the same thickness aren't identical. And only if they were would machines that copy a reed's thickness IMHO give you the results you seek.
Reeds need to be adjusted by how they play, not how thick they are. I would, rather than buy this machine or any one like it, invest in the Ridenour ATG reed adjusting system, assuming you haven't.
Do you adjust reeds or simply accept what comes out of the box? I never, I mean never not adjust reeds somewhat, and I am able to get a fair number out of the box to play well.
Do you play a relatively reed permissive mouthpiece? The Vandoren M15 I play has this attributed cited as one of its strengths.
I trust you appreciate that all the Vandoren reeds of a particular make (e.g. V12, Blue Box) and instrument (e.g. Soprano Clarinet) are cut the same way irrespective of strength, and then classified into different strengths by putting the reed a known distance from a known puff of air pressure and measuring the deflection: the more deflection the weaker the reed.
So even Vandoren lets mother nature's diversity, not their cut, dictate a reed's strength. So any notions of "cut alike play alike" may be a "fool's paradise." And this is the company that claims to cut their reeds with less tolerance than the thickness of a human hair.
If out of the box stability is what you seek, willing to compromise something less than your best cane reed for consistency, then maybe you should try synthetic Legere French Cut.
Are you studying with anyone right now?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-02-16 08:23
I just got a box of V21 #3 reeds the other day. Never used them before. Not a big fan of those yet either. They're probably a good starting point? Time will tell.
I have Tom's ATG system, a cordier reed trimmer, and a bastard file. (I just like saying that - lol.) While Tom doesn't recommend doing anything with the table of the reed (flat side), I've sanded down reeds to lower the strength and get a little more response.
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Ridenour Homage mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren #3 reeds
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kdk
Date: 2025-02-16 18:00
JustBored wrote:
> I am really picky about reeds. I will accept like 1 out of
> 20-30 reeds. I don't like to play on reeds that don't sound or
> play the way I like. I only use Vandoren blue box traditional
> reeds.
Could you be playing a mouthpiece that's unusually reed-unfriendly?
What is it you don't like about the 19-29 reeds you reject? Too stiff? Too soft? Too "bright?" "Dull?"
If your rejection rate is that high, you may be trying to use the wrong strength. Have you tried the next strength up or down (depending on the problem)?
Have you tried any of Vandoren's other models? They each offer different resistance and sound tendencies. A #3 Traditional is not the same as a #3 56 Rue lepic or V.12 or V21. Although a sample on one reed isn't much to go on, Vandoren markets sampler packs containing one each of several models all in one strength.
> It seems the quality has gone down now. I can't even
> find 1 reed I like out of like 2 boxes.
You must be very young. The reeds (Vandoren and others) are infinitely more consistent today than they were when I was a young player. The cutting equipment is much more sophisticated and accurate today.
I would suggest, without having heard you play, that rather than poor reed quality your problem is with either your mouthpiece or the style and strength of the reeds you're trying to use.
> I think the solution
> for me would be if somebody can make an exact replica of the
> dimensions of the reed that I like. Is there a way that this
> can be done?
>
As has already been said, reed inconsistency within a single strength and model is caused mostly by differences in the cane from one reed to the next. The dimensions of commercial reeds are nowadays quite consistent, so a Reed Du-All or the Dilutis machine or any other copier would not produce reeds that are much more consistent than what you're already buying. Again, the more likely solution is to find a strength and style of reed you're more comfortable with.
Karl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JustBored
Date: 2025-02-16 20:12
What is Vandoren's method of adjusting reeds? I don't think I have ever noticed them recommend adjusting reeds much at all. In a box of reeds, I notice that the reeds all have different dimensions. The reed that I like are almost always symmetrically cut. I have not had two reeds that sound the same. It might be impossible to copy a reed that you like a lot exactly. The reason I reject a lot of reeds is because the sound is not great, and it plays in a way that I don't quite like. I have a huge pile of rejected reeds. I'll try them and it will not sound good. What can be done about them? I currently use a Vandoren BD4 HD mouthpiece with a Vandoren Optimum ligature and play on Buffet, Selmer and Rossi clarinets.
Post Edited (2025-02-17 15:53)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Globus
Date: 2025-02-16 20:56
To the original poster: The external dimensions of a reed are only a very small part of the issue. The much bigger part is the cane itself.
The internal structure of cane is all over the landscape and that is what mostly accounts for the problems one encounters with sound, strength, response and longevity. Finding a cane reed that works for you is, and always has been, a crap shoot. A never-ending headache.
This is where Legere reeds have a huge advantage. The proprietary polypropylene Legere uses to produce its reeds is highly controllable and is orders of magnitude more consistent than cane from both a quality (sound) and a strength (flexing) perspective. It's an entirely different world.
I am 74 years old and used cane for my entire playing career. There was no choice in those days. But I now cringe when I think for it, especially when it came to touring with an orchestra or a chamber ensemble. What a hassle. I still play for my own enjoyment but use only Legere (French cut) reeds. I would not go back to cane for all arundo donax in the world.
You should really think about switching yourself.
Paul Globus
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: super20dan
Date: 2025-02-16 21:03
i agree you need to get your mpc checked. mpcs sometimes warp over time and finding reeds that work becomes an issue
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-02-16 21:08
JustBored wrote:
> What is Vandoren's method of adjusting reeds?
This page features their reed trimmers and resurfacer and stick:
https://vandoren.fr/en/accessories/
> I don't think I have ever noticed them recommend adjusting reeds much at all.
Please do not conflate any reed manufacturer's absence, or seeming absence of tools, techniques and/or endorsement of reed adjustment methods with the absence of the frequent need for such things.
> In a box of reeds, I notice that the reeds all have different
> dimensions.
Here are Vandoren's cutting guidelines for their various clarinet product lines:
https://vandoren.fr/en/reeds-technical-elements/
What are you using to measure (e.g. digital calipers?) your reeds in various places that find you drawing these conclusions on variability of cut? I don't mean to imply that manufacturers might benefit from more frequent calibration and QA of their cutting equipment but I am curious why you've reached this size difference conclusion.
>The reed that I like are almost always symmetrically cut.
As you can see from the prior link, all reeds from Vandoren, and dare I say all manufacturers are cut, at least with the intension if not actuality, of being symmetrical on their long axis.
If I may be so bold, dare I suggest that it is not the symmetry of their cut that most players find appealing but the symmetry of their *play* on either side of their long axis midline, in addition of course to other factors, that make them desirable. This goes back to my original thought that reeds may be initially cut with respect to physical dimensions, but they are *adjusted* with respect to how they actually play for a particular user, with a particular setup, and that were calipers taken to the reed that plays symmetrically, one may or more not find that that reed also adheres to perfect correlation between symmetry of play and symmetry of physical dimensions.
I am nothing but endorsing that a reed's initial cut should, irrespective of the model's design particulars begin as a symmetrical one, or as close as possible, with respect to its long axis. But I am equally endorsing that this is but a mere starting point for then adjusting them to the player's liking.
> I have not had two reeds that sound the same.
It would be unreasonable to expect otherwise. Even manufactured synthetics, where quality control can limit differences thrown in by mother nature in cane, aren't identical. As clarinet players we walk a fine line of seeking the reeds most suitable to our liking, while also accepting our need to make subtle adjustments to our play to accommodate reasonable variability.
> It might be impossible to copy a reed that you like a lot
> exactly. The reason I reject a lot of reeds is because the
> sound is not great, and it plays in a way that I don't quite
> like.
Well, if the reed is to heavy and/or unbalanced, issues that can be addressed with tools like the aforementioned ATG system, you might find the system paying for itself in smaller outlays of cash to purchase reeds.
I have a huge pile of rejected reeds. I'll try them and
> it will not sound good. What can be done about them?
In a sea of clarinet products that don't live up to their hype, I cannot help but think that this one, as I've mentioned, and which I do not profit from, and to beat a dead horse, does and will turn many of your unplayable reeds into not simply playable ones, but ones you covet.
https://www.rclarinetproducts.com/atg-reed-finishing-system
Like all gear it is not a substitute for hard work, and just makes reed choice a bit easier.
> I currently use a Vandoren BD4 HD mouthpiece with an Vandoren
> Optimum ligature and play on Buffet, Selmer and Rossi
> clarinets.
I too would find myself discarding many more reeds without tools for adjusting them. Nothing about your equipment stands out to me as an obstacle to having good playing reeds more than another setup.
One final thought, even after I've physically adjusted a reed it might, like many players, very well find itself moving by microns on my mouthpiece, up if it's weak, or to the left or right to accommodate subtle symmetry differences, the hard side getting moved towards the center line by fractions of a millimeter.
Post Edited (2025-02-16 21:10)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2025-02-16 22:02
I suppose one could say that "Vandoren's method of adjusting reeds" is described in their brochure accompanying their etched glass "Reed resurfacer and reed stick" kit. Quite basic things though, involving just 1) too hard reeds (sanding the flat side), 2) "to facilitate the attack" (scraping the tip), 3) "to make your reed speak more rapidly" (sanding both sides), and 4) warped table (sanding the flat side, apart from the tip).
I get lots of warped reeds, especially Vandorens (sometimes even 10/10), but their advice No 4 above works.
Interestingly, instructions about balancing reeds aren't included - but their reed stick works nicely also for that purpose.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lydian
Date: 2025-02-16 23:29
Problem is all reeds are already cut to the same dimensions since they all come out of the same machine. The variation is in cane density, elasticity, etc., all of which are natural variations beyond anyone's control. The best a manufacturer can do is a strength test, which they already do in order to put them in the right box. So your plan would fail. My advice is learn how to work on reeds.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-02-17 00:04
another thought...consider trying some Pilgerstorfer or Leuthner reeds if you haven't.
https://www.clarkwfobes.com/collections/reeds
Sometimes some of our issue is that a particular cut of reed just doesn't work as well for us. Case in point, *for me* I'd take Vandoren Blue Box over a 56 Rue Lepic, much that I've had my successes and failures with both, but seem to "bat a higher percentage" with the Blue Box....
Post Edited (2025-02-17 02:37)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ACCA
Date: 2025-02-17 14:54
+1 for Pilgerstorfer.
the Morre cut reeds are the best I have tried. period. basically, out of the box 75% of them play like the best blue box reed you have ever tried, only better!
I also use legere french cut as a backup my remaining complaint with synthetics is that for me they go soft after about 45 minutes of playing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2025-02-17 18:54
ACCA Pilgerstorfer Morré are my favorites too!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JustBored
Date: 2025-02-17 18:57
I think that a lot of players seem to confuse a reed that does not seem to respond well or is fighting with you and makes playing difficult with a reed that is higher in strength than you should be playing at. I try reeds at various strength to find one I'm the most comfortable with. In a box of a reeds with a given strength number there are various strengths around that number. If a reed seems to be higher in strength than I'm comfortable with I adjust that to bring the strength down slightly, but the quality of sound might not be acceptable. So, it is not so simple and takes effort to find a great reed.
The reason that makes me reject a lot of reeds is that the reed is at the right strength but the sound and response of it is not what I like. I don't think there is much I can do about this problem. The colder and dry winter climate that I am in is making the reed situation much worse.
Post Edited (2025-02-17 20:24)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SecondTry
Date: 2025-02-17 22:55
JustBored wrote:
> The colder and dry winter climate that I am in is
> making the reed situation much worse.
>
We all respond differently to various environmental factors, but many report that it is, paradoxically enough, the summer, with its humidity that presents more of an obstacle to good cane reed acquisition.
Here is where humidity controlled storage with Boveda packs, or use of synthetic reeds both present good cases for their use. 
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
