 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lorenzo_M
Date: 2012-08-21 13:10
I've been trying to find info on these, and it's scarce. Just wanted to know if anyone might have a ballpark on value for this.
Phil at the NYC Flute Center has in his possession possibly the rarest thing I have ever seen. It's not just a single Haynes "Thermo" Clarinet...it's a matched set of A and Bb. The condition is not actually very good, though not playable. I saw these clarinets myself and felt the mechanism...it could be overhauled easily, and hand polished. Several rods need oiling and the pads are in rotten shape...but in the grand scheme of things, this is minor.
I saw a Bb go on ebay for about $7K, but I don't think anyone bought it. This is not just one, but a matched set of full-boehm sterling instruments. I've never even seen a metal A clarinet before, let alone a matched set of Haynes Thermo! We called Haynes and were told they only made 334 of these over 16 years...that's an average production of 20-21 a year!
Anyway, any guesses on value, and anyone know someone who might want to own these? Just curious, I was in Phil's shop and I suggested he take it to Tomoji for his opinion and possibly if he'll restore it...
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-08-21 13:36
Jim Lande who contributes to this BB has a fabulous collection of metal clarinets, including a matched set of Haynes instruments. I had the opportunity to play them briefly quite a few years ago -- they were wonderful, as I recall. Jim puts up an annual survey of observed transactions and selling prices of metal clarinets here on the BB; you may want to search for his threads, you'll get a LOT of information.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-08-21 13:36
Haynes clarinets go for very high prices, and the sky's the limit for a pair. There's an active group that collects them. A search on this board and the Klarinet list will bring up many hits.
The value and the enormous prestige of the maker doesn't mean they're great clarinets. Charlie Ponte had a Bb in his store, which was in prime condition. The fit and finish were of course impeccable, but I didn't particularly like it as a clarinet.
First, it was based on a Selmer model. For me, it had the typical Selmer glare in the sound. Second, the little finger keys were too short, and I kept missing them. Third, it had a double "thermos" tube. There was a hole at the top of the barrel that you could blow into to warm up the air. However, that would quickly infest the interior with mold.
Of course I should have bought it, if only for the collectibility, but I was even poorer then than I am now.
Charlie also had a Bb/A pair of silver H. Bettoneys. They felt good but weren't really in playable condition, and he wanted a super-premium price for them. Alexander Williams played an H. Bettoney Eb in the New York Philharmonic and there's a photo of Gaston Hamelin (principal in Boston) with one. The story is that he was fired for using it, but I don't really believe it.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-08-21 13:54
But be aware that there's a similar brand name, Haynes-Schwelm, worth far less. I have a Haynes-Schwelm flute, silver plated over brass. My opinion of a flute is worth bupkis because I play like a pig on flute. Opinions of Haynes-Schwelm I found online from people who seem to know what they're doing range from "decent student instrument" to theme and variations on "piece of crap." Haynes-Schwelm also made clarinets.
I paid $18 for my Haynes-Schwelm flute at a flea market in 2004. Apparently the company made a line of what it claimed were "professional" instruments, but I don't believe pro musicians ever accepted them as such.
William S. Haynes, Jr. was the son of the famous William H. Haynes (who started the fine company in 1886 with his brother, George, who went off on his own to California in 1897). The son apparently didn't get along with his father. He and a Haynes employee, John Schwelm, who had also worked as a foreman at Powell, started their own company as Haynes-Schwelm in 1920. Schwelm left in 1923. The Haynes-Schwelm company continued in business until the 1950s, according to most reports.
Note that nothing I've written reflects in any way on the valuable Haynes instruments that are the subject of this thread. Just a warning to make sure it's a real Haynes, not a hyphenated Haynes.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2012-08-21 13:55)
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Author: Lorenzo_M
Date: 2012-08-21 14:17
it's a real Haynes. We called Haynes and had them look up the serial numbers as well. I didn't ask when they were made, but it's definitely the real deal.
I'll do the search you guys suggested, thanks!
And as far as rare, these are full Boehm instruments to boot. If nothing else, I'm certain these things would be fun to play...just to say I have, ha.
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Author: Lorenzo_M
Date: 2012-08-25 06:43
Some work got done on it just to make it playable (not concert-ready or anything...but you can play a few scales and arpeggios up and down). It was more to just hear the thing and see what it might sound like, than anything serious.
I must say, it played pretty decently in THAT condition, overhauled I think it would sound great. If you like bigger bore clarinets that is...it certainly felt like a large bore horn. Someone took a video...but I hope it's not on Youtube. There were some heavy players in the shop and I was kind of...embarrassed....lol.
I'm don't mean to start the whole "material matters" discussion here, but I'm just going to state that to MY ears, behind the instrument, the sterling silver just plain sounded different. It had a different vibration and ring in the sound...the unmistakable sound of sterling silver. I've owned sterling silver mouthpieces, played sterling silver necks, have sterling silver flutes....etc....some of you will know what I mean (I hope). It didn't have the same bright, brassy quality metal clarinets tend to have...but that could very well be because of the wall thickness and bore, as opposed to the material.
If I had the money, I'd buy it.... and maybe even use it
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-08-26 12:00
>> Some work got done on it just to make it playable (not concert-ready or anything...but you can play a few scales and arpeggios up and down). It was more to just hear the thing and see what it might sound like, than anything serious.
>>
Good. Anyone who thinks about restoring a clarinet as respected as a Haynes needs to understand that collectors highly value originality.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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