 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Klarnt
Date: 2023-06-01 10:38
So Ive got myself an old Buffet Alto Clarinet, and based on the serial (19860) Im guessing its from around 1954?
Its my first time even working on an instrument. The many rusty stripped screws have really complicated things. At some point somebody in the past really stripped several rod/pivot screws, and its honestly a miracle I got these things out. Some of these rod screws are so stripped that I cannot fathom putting them back in.
Ive done a little bit of searching and have only found some replacement pivot screws for the soprano but none for Alto. Where on earth do I find replacement parts for Alto rods and pivot screws? Are these things standardized or does every company and model do things differently?
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-06-01 12:40
To what extent is the thread damage on the rods , or likewise in the posts ?...and are the rods in bad shape overall ?
If getting replacements turns into a nightmare , and if the rod surfaces are not too corroded , then falling back on the wonders of Teflon tape may well provide a practical solution.
But Chris P is bound to chip in soon , and he's really the true voice of authority on these matters .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2023-06-01 17:06
Some pictures would help to determine how bad they are and whether they can be saved. You aren’t going to be able to find them anywhere new unfortunately, Buffet has changed the thread size and diameter of their rods at various points in the past. I had both a 1947 and a 1951 Buffet bass clarinet in the shop recently and the thread size was completely different on all of the rods. The best option would be to get a lathe and make your own, but of course that is not always practical. Another thing you can do is deepen the slots in the head of the screws with a jeweler’s saw and clean up the rest with a file. The screws and rods will be a bit more recessed but they will still function just as well.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2023-06-01 20:42
To look on the bright side, you may well find that you have a friendly machinists nearby who can make the parts you need just fine . Hinge rods often have a slight flare at the slotted end to fit snug in the post , but that detail noted , they shouldn't pose any specialist challenges .
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-06-01 21:04
Measure the diameters and the lengths of all the damaged rods, publish your findings on here and I'm sure we can recommend some alternatives for you.
I recently had to replace all the worn out rod screws on an old Selmer Sterling plateaux clarinet and went up 0.1mm in diameter from the originals as that made for a much better fit in the pillar heads as well which is equally as critical as the fit in the key barrels, if not more so in some cases.
All the 1.8mm diameter ones were upped to 1.9mm (same as Marigaux oboe cross key screws) and the 2.1mm diameter ones were upped to 2.2mm (the same as B&H clarinets).
The threads were tapped out accordingly - I forget what the narrow diameter thread size was (probably M1.7x3.5), but the larger ones were all tapped out to M2x0.4. The adjusting screws were all replaced with M2x0.4 ones with a 2.4mm diameter head (same as Howarth oboe adjusting screws).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Klarnt
Date: 2023-06-02 11:17
{is there a way to delete a message? this one accidentally posted early for some reason}
Post Edited (2023-06-02 11:55)
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Author: Klarnt
Date: 2023-06-02 11:53
Attachment: Top Rod.png (252k)
Attachment: Bottom Rod.png (224k)
A lot of the rods and posts have some slight rusting with the pivot screws having more severe rusting on the surface. Not terrible shape, I just need to de-rust them. There is one pivot screw that I was unable to remove, so its still on the horn. Good news is that most of the rods come out much easier the second time so its not as bad as I originally thought.
So theres only two rods that are seriously damaged in terms of stripping. The biggest trouble maker is from the top joint, the longest rod for all the main notes (E to C).
2.34 x 124.73mm
This one is basically unusable as a screw and the one I had in mind when originally posting this. Unfortunately I couldnt take a great picture of it, but I tried to edit it to make it easier to see. Looking at it you can kindof tell that theres a horizontal valley so the screwdriver cant grip anything.
Next on the bottom joint, is the overall third longest rod and is for the pinky keys near the bottom.
2.05mm x 75.55mm
This one is weird. The surface stripping isnt as bad as the one above but after a certain point of turning it just stops spinning outwards and it cant be pulled out because the threads are still in. Instead I had to use a rubber tipped pliers to turn it while providing a faint pull and once it was ready I could actually pull it out as intended. Im wondering if the threads are busted too?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2023-06-02 14:22
For the first one, stripping generally refers to the threads, not the slot. It's unclear from your post whether the threads themselves are ok or not. If the threads are fine and the rod itself is ok in the keys and posts, then as jdbassplayer wrote you might be able to get away with simply slotting them deeper if enough length is left inside the posts for support.
For the second one, it sounds like the threads are worn/stripped enough that it doesn't come out from just turning it, but not to the degree that it's like there are no threads at all. If there are any rod screws on the instrument that are in decent condition you can try them in the post to check. If they work fine then the problem is mostly the rod. If not then it's the post or both (I say mostly because it could still be significantly worn in the post but just enough that a good screw works).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2023-06-02 16:54
If the rods are a sloppy fit in the key barrels and pillar heads, then you can definitely go up a size using some standard diameter rod screws currently in use in the industry.
The 2.34mm diameter ones can easily be upped to 2.4mm which is standard on Loree, Howarth and Marigaux oboes/cors anglais and also a diameter Buffet use on bass clarinets (and most likely on their oboes/cors).
2.05mm diameter ones can be upped to 2.1mm - I think Buffet themselves might still use 2.1mm diameter rod screws on some of their clarinets.
You can get fluted reamers in 0.01mm increments and it's typical for long key barrels to be reamed out to 2.41mm or even 2.42mm even with a 2.4mm steel, but you won't want to ream them out that large on keys with short key barrels. Or fabricate your own reamer from the same diameter steel as the rod screw, although stainless steel alloys don't tend to offer as good or as durable a cutting edge as carbon steel (the advantage of stainless steel rod screws being they're less likely to rust depending on the quality of the alloy).
For long length 2.4mm diameter rod screws, oboes/cors anglais have that in abundance - especially Howarth who use long rod screws on their instruments to mount the low C and B keys on when other makes tend to use a long point screw for the low B key and the low C keys have a solid key rod (or a floating steel within the key barrel) and are mounted between point screws.
Fossati and Rigoutat use 2.3mm diameter rod screws on their instruments if you ever need to source that size.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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