 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2022-11-30 19:27
Hey all, there were a couple of other posts that mentioned the (relatively) new Vandoren Carbon Fiber ligature, however it wasn't the main focus of those threads, so I decided to make a new one! Anyway, I recently had a chance to visit the Vandoren Studio in NYC and give the ligature a try, as well as compare it to the complete MO Ligature lineup. I made a video while I was there so you all could get a sense of the ligature for yourselves as well! A final note, this video isn't sponsored in any way. If you have any questions about something I might not have covered in the video, feel free to ask!
Here is the video: https://youtu.be/AVCfA1HCfmY
A final note, in another thread people were talking about potentially using it with Synthetic reeds. Unfortunately I could not get the ligature tight enough to firmly hold the Legere Soprano Sax reed I use in place. So your mileage may vary with that combination (depending on the width of your mouthpiece.)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-11-30 20:14
Ah the solution there is to use a plastic shim from something about the diameter of a mouthpiece. I have SOOOOOO many ligatures that I have Rovner, BG and Vandoren plastic mouthpiece caps all over the place. I cut a 2cm square shim out of one of those and placed that on the top of the mouthpiece under the screw business.
That's if you have a thinner mouthpiece and use the Euro Cut reeds.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2022-11-30 20:55
Hi Eric:
Thank you for your video. I thoroughly enjoy your content and love how you never forsake objectivity for art, nor art for objectivity.
It sounds like (no pun intended) the carbon fiber's price is far too much for me to enjoy less variation among the performance of my cane reeds than the limited variation across reeds that my current (M/O) ligature contributes to.
Restated, of course, like all of us, I experience enormous variation in play between cane reeds, but also like nearly all of us, 99% of that variation in cane reeds lies in the reeds themselves, and not other factors like mouthpiece, ligature, or other external factors. YMMV.
Perhaps at some point you will be able to try the ligature with some synthetics to judge Paul Aviles enthusiastic review of the carbon fiber ligature with these "puppies." I too have tried the Soprano Sax Legere's when I read about (I think) Ricardo Morales using them in lieu of clarinet Legeres, along with the cheapest competent Eb clarinet ligature I could find, on my Bb setup. I was motivated to do so seeking in vain sharper intonation versus the clarinet Legeres. LSS I'm still a cane player.
And Paul, while I appreciate your hack, as I know you must appreciate, as each person's hack to get the Soprano sax reed to fit here is different, it introduces one more point of variability in the product across users, on top of the enormous level of variability that is the human experience. 
All this said, from a business ethics standpoint--much that Vandoren forces nobody to buy, I question just how much a markup $500 is from their cost, and how much cheaper this ligature could be produced in quantities similar to the exiting M/O lineup.
Post Edited (2022-11-30 20:56)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-11-30 21:42
Let's add Silverstein to that list as their newest offering is also at $500.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: Hunter_100
Date: 2022-11-30 22:31
It is not production cost that drive up price, you are covering Vandoren's research costs in making this design, testing, and product marketing.
Carbon fiber is fairly cheap to produce once the molds are made, I would guess these only cost $5-$10 per ligature to make. But they aren't going to sell millions of them, more like a few hundred so the development cost is a substantial chunk to add on.
And of course, add whatever markup they want to because of name recognition and exclusivity of owning a $500 dollar strap.
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2022-12-01 06:27
Thanks for the kind words SecondTry, I really appreciate it!
And, I do believe that Hunter_100 is right. While researching and talking to people for this video I got the impression that this was more of an interesting project that the engineers at Vandoren decided they wanted to take on, rather than a project born because the company thought it would be extremely profitable/lucrative. I agree that a significant portion of the high cost is probably just Vandoren trying to recoup that initial development cost. However, I really don't know how big of a portion of it that actually is.
And, as a side note, I have a feeling that many people were shocked when they first saw the price tag, specifically because Vandoren seems to have always prided itself on being a more affordable option. While I am sure that the vast majority of their products will continue to remain in a more accessible price bracket, it will be interesting to see if this limited release has opened the door, so-to-speak, for future products of a similar nature. I do like that they are willing to experiment and I'd be really curious to know how Vandoren views this ligature's reception, (and resultant sales) internally, but I suppose time will tell how it affects their release strategy (if at all) moving forward.
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Author: SebastianB
Date: 2022-12-01 06:43
Yes, an R & D project not so much perhaps regarding the ligature as the process. That seems quite plausible.
Eric I very much enjoy your videos, thank you for what I am sure is a daunting amount of effort that goes into making them.
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2022-12-01 12:35
Both Vandoren and Ishimori ligatures have this irritating feature, that their measurements are too large for certain mouthpieces of german-austrian origin, because they are slightly slimmer than Vandorens. It's a matter of 2-3mm in circumference. For example they can't be used with Playnicks or old Zinners.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2022-12-01 13:33
Carbonissimo did it first with great results and very reasonable prices. Vandoren comes along and copies them and everyone goes wild like they just launched a major innovation in the clarinet world. 🙄
Peter Cigleris
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2022-12-01 18:37
try the pereira 3d printed lig . its really good for legere useres. best responce i have got from any lig/legere combo. at least on bass and alto clarinet at 40$ its a bargin comp to the carbon fiber vandy
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Author: justwannaplay
Date: 2022-12-02 17:21
I enjoyed your video -good to see what is new in the clarinet world. To my ears I noticed a difference with the black ligature and that to me sounded best.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-12-03 00:29
Eric,
You mention that perhaps the differences in ligatures is not so pronounced for you because your set up is "light." Do you mean your reeds tend softer and your mouthpieces tend more closed, OR do you mean that you barely tighten the ligature........OR both?
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2022-12-04 12:58
Paul!
I know, even tried. The thing is that the size of certain germanmade french mouthpieces is not the size of a german mouthpiece. It is the french size, but slightly slimmer. So german optimum was far too small to my playnick.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
Post Edited (2022-12-04 12:58)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-12-05 01:08
Hey Jarmo,
Sorry did not mean to sound argumentative. I was thinking the size of a standard Oehler style Wurlitzer mouthpiece. I do have a standard Boehm mouthpiece (Hawkins R facing) that is literally the same diameter of the Wurlitzer! I have run into compatibility issues with ligatures many times myself. Some ligatures are great for ALL sizes like the Rovner Versa or the Rovner Platinum (an oddly resonant metal ligature). But if you have a lot of plastic mouthpiece caps floating around, just cut a 2 centimeter square out of one of them and shim the "big ligature" under the screw (for inverted styles) to make it fit perfectly.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2022-12-06 18:36
Thanks SebastianB, I appreciate that as well!
Hi Paul, sorry I should have been more clear! I meant that I tend to play on softer reeds, though not with a particularly closed mouthpiece currently. My setup in general is pretty free blowing!
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-12-06 22:41
Thanks for the clarification Eric!
There are factors like that, that make some of the information we share amongst are selves harder to understand because some of us approach playing so differently that we don't experience solutions (or problems) the same way.
.................Paul Aviles
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