 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2022-07-10 17:17
Dear friends: I read around a year ago that a research team at MIT has discovered a technique for making wood hard as steel. Given that blackwood is becoming extinct, maybe this would be the way to go in the future of woodwind manufacturing: taking commonplace species of wood and hardening them. Needless to say, there exist other parameters that influence tone: density, the fibers of wood, etc. Your thoughts on the matter please. This is something the artisan that I work for -JL Clarinettes-could experiment on.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-07-10 18:28
I am very excited by the idea. Perhaps the process will add even more snap and resonance to the sound (much like the effects of carbon fiber in various items from ligatures to clarinets).
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: ruben
Date: 2022-07-10 20:57
This wouldn't have to be mopane or rosewoord or the like....maybe very commonplace pine would do.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-07-10 23:16
I haven’t read the detail, but it seems volume of the wood is reduced by 80% through this process (I’m guessing laterally, across the grain). I doubt you’ll find a grenadilla blank, or perhaps any tree-based blank, big enough to make a clarinet out of. Suggests you’d need to glue sections together then make the clarinet. Also, I wonder, how does 80% reduction in volume affect weight? Is the resultant wood 80% heavier than a piece of untreated wood? On the other hand, perhaps the clarinet could be 80% thinner because it’s so dense.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2022-07-10 23:51
Once again: there"s no reason why it would ave to be grenadilla any more. Grenadilla was first used to replace boxwood because it didn't warp like the latter. If even very light wood is turned into something rock hard, let's use very commonplace, fast-growing wood.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-07-11 03:16
Grenadilla was just an example. Take pine, with volume reduced by 80%, you’ve still got to start with a large piece of wood to finish with clarinet-sized piece to work on and it’s going to be heavy after the process. If it does weigh so much more and has to be machined thinner so a player can actually support/hold it over a period, there won’t be much material depth to put posts etc into. That suggest a different style of keywork would be necessary, maybe a sort of exoskeleton lattice/metal frame, with keys mounted/glued on it, rather than drilled into the body. High density material might require different machinery to cut it as well. Not so say any of this is impossible to overcome but it would require significant investment in new tooling, systems, wood processing.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-07-11 04:26
My guess is that the weight will be the same as the "pre-reduced" size.
Since African Blackwood is already really dense I would not think the reduced wood should be any heavier than that. I guess I'm saying that it should be no different than a billet of African Blackwood and no manufacturing modification would be necessary. Still, there may be some interesting effects to the sound if the collapsed cell structures then vibrate more like crystal.
I know, make a few clarinets out of reduced wood and see what happens!
...............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2022-07-11 06:13)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2022-07-11 05:55
Hans Colbers, a mouthpiece maker in the Netherlands, said a few years ago that he had to stop using blanks made of "Zelltec" a hard wood composite developed by Leitner and Krauss in Germany, because the material was so hard that it damaged his tools. And this damage was from the very small adjustments required to put on a facing and flatten a table. Imagine how much worse the problem would be if you were trying to fashion a clarinet from the material!
Another problem with heavy wood is that few players like the feel of a heavy clarinet in their hands. That accounts for the turn to carbon fiber and other elements that can lighten the instrument. Ergonomics and agility tend to benefit from decreased weight and less stress.
Post Edited (2022-07-11 05:57)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2022-07-11 12:31
Seabreeze:I play a Selmer Recital-heavier and thicker than other clarinets and harder-blowing. I love the warm, round tone of the instrument, but could do without the three drawbacks I have mentioned.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2022-07-11 12:46
My idea turns out not to be so good, given the perfectly valid reservations other posters ave expressed. It's back to the drawing board, I'm afraid!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-07-11 13:42
So..... we've built a clarinet from this material and it didn't work?!!?
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Gemcuttr98
Date: 2022-08-19 23:19
Mr. Greenberg, perhaps what you seek may be found in a soluble solution of Butvar. Mixed with a solvent to various viscosities, usually Acetone, it is used by researchers, museums, archeologists and Conservators to stabilize and harden wooden artifacts such as shipwrecks and other archeological delicates. It may also be applied (in solution) in a vacuum chamber or pressure vessel. Personally, I use it to preserve marine fossils for handling by the public. Do not lose hope for your vision!
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Author: ruben
Date: 2022-08-20 09:53
Thank you so much! -for the information and even more for your encouragement.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2022-08-20 15:59
Dear Gencurrtr: Do you think the process you have suggested could be used to coat the bore of a boxwood clarinet and keep it from warping? Thank you.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2022-08-20 20:51
Back in the 70's I did some work for a company that used a process similar to the Butvar process mentioned earlier to produce extremely hard-wearing wood floors. The timber was exposed in a vacuum chamber and then the solvent-based hardening agent was introduced. They achieved very good penetration and the treated timber could be cut or planed.
Tony F.
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