 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Winnie
Date: 2022-04-08 05:51
My high school band is playing Danzon No.2 for our spring concert and I have the opening clarinet solo. I have all the rhythms down and I play the right notes and it sounds fine, but there's no emotion. My band directors are trying to get the band to play with more style and the solo opens the whole piece. I'm really having trouble trying to give it more spice or jazz, so if anyone could give me some pointers on what to do, it would be much appreciated. I've listened to dozens of recordings and I've tried to use some inspiration in certain parts but it still just doesn't sound right. Something is missing and without it, it makes it very bland. Again, any help is welcome.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-04-08 06:47
Hi,
I'm an adult learner, and I completely get what you mean.
I recently went back to resit grade 1, having been working on grade 4 for a while and I found that I was able to play the style and emotion of the pieces now, because I am much more secure technically.
However, wtih me it is not just a matter of practising a bit longer or trying to sound a certain way. It was really very much the fact that I had been technically proficient at grade 1 three years ago and now am so much more technically secure that I was able to relax into the music and really be expressive when I played it.
I'm also 46 years old and playing alone at home, where I feel much more secure about playing expressively. I think it would be quite hard to do it under pressure in a school orchestra, on command, so to speak. Being older, I think also helps me to be more expressive. I wasn't very emotionally expressive at all when I was younger, but I think maybe people mature at different rates in that regard. Not sure.
Do you feel as though you are comfortable with the technical demands of the piece, and in the company of your orchestra and conductor? I feel as though maybe that is a big part of being able to relax and play expressively.
I'm not a very experienced musician, so it may be that the professional folks on the list will have much better advice for you. Just wanted to offer sympathy, as I totally get what you mean.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-04-08 06:56
George Burns once said of acting that the secret to great acting is sincerity......and if you can fake that, you've got it made.
I don't like to speak of emotion, when that is only a very subjective evaluation by the observer. What DOES make sense to me is doing something that catches the attention of the listener. That entails differences of volume from note to note; phrase to phrase. The problem with recordings (opposed to listening to live performances) is that much of what we hear has been "compressed," that is, making the difference between loud and soft LESS so in order to make the quiet passages audible to average listeners under average conditions (less than ideal conditions like while in a car or on a treadmill at the gym). THEN the broadcasters (FM; satellite; YouTube) compress further to make the soft parts even more audible.
But you can experiment for yourself with using greater and greater volume differentials to see what that sounds like to you (listen to any recording of Martin Frost.....his dynamics are very wide and stand out no matter what recording techniques are used). I have suggested before a very simplistic "go-to" of playing louder as you go up the horn, and playing softer as you go down the horn. At very least this is rather euphonic and a good place to start. This will give you a starting point for how you can manipulate a phrase to trigger a more emotional response from listeners...... as well as yourself.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Winnie
Date: 2022-04-08 09:03
Hi!
Up until I read your comment I thought that the reason my style wasn’t full of emotion was because of a technical or expressive problem. Now I realize that the reason might be a mental/emotional block in myself.
You mentioned that it might be hard to play with emotion under pressure in an orchestra and on command. I have felt some nervousness before playing my solo, especially since it starts the piece and there isn’t a “warm up”. But I never thought about playing with emotion on command, which is sort of what the piece and my directors are wanting. I’m pretty introverted and I don’t reveal my emotions that often since I’m quite private, even to close friends, so my solo feeling bland might be a mixture of me being shy and not used to expressing myself.
As for feeling comfortable with the piece, I do feel comfortable with the technical demands of the piece, especially when I’m alone or playing in front of friends. I really enjoy it, it’s a very fun piece to listen to and play! In the company of my orchestra and conductor I do feel somewhat comfortable but some pressure at the same time to play it perfectly. I think I need to be more open and transparent with my playing and be less attentive to the pressure I feel.
Thank you for the advice! It’s helped me view playing with emotion and expression in a different way!
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Author: Winnie
Date: 2022-04-08 09:07
Hello!
Thank you for mentioning dynamics! Looking back I think my directors were trying to get me to be more expressive through my dynamics and less on my style.
I’ve been playing my solo in my own bubble per se. I was playing forte, mezzo forte, and mezzo piano for dynamics because to me I can hear the difference. However, the audience might not be able to tell the difference in volume or expression because they would be farther away. Making the dynamics more drastic might give it the expression it has been missing.
I think my style has been decent with the piece since it’s similar to some recordings, but using more dynamic contrast would help. I realize now that more variation and expression of dynamics would help not only me play with more emotion but also for the audience to hear the expression and the difference in volume.
Thank you for your advice!
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-04-08 09:30
Hi Winnie,
That's brilliant that you feel so secure with the technical demands of the piece. I think that is such a really fabulous foundation on which to build a bit more expression. I would give my eye teeth to be able to say that about my playing. LOL!
I think that what you say about feeling kind of like a private person really chimes in with my experience too. I suppose that getting to the place where you can kind of "let your hair down" in a public situation is quite a big step. It's definitely great that you can identify that as an area to consider though, and I bet you can have some fun playing with it, as you try different options.
Another thing I've noticed recently is that sometimes I can feel as though I am playing very expressively, but if I video myself and watch the video, it turns out that my playing sounds quite different in person from the way it sounds in my head. Often my forte playing can sound quite loud in my head, but on video it is actually not that different from the other parts of the piece. If you haven't done it much before, it might be worth videoing yourself to see if your dynamics are as noticeable from the outside as they are on the inside.
Good luck with it. It sounds as though you are really doing a great job there. :-)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2022-04-08 09:53
"Another thing I've noticed recently is that sometimes I can feel as though I am playing very expressively, but if I video myself and watch the video, it turns out that my playing sounds quite different in person from the way it sounds in my head. Often my forte playing can sound quite loud in my head, but on video it is actually not that different from the other parts of the piece."
This expresses very well my own experience. When I watched a video of a band performance where I had a fairly extended solo passage which I thought I had executed with feeling and expression I was surprised at how wooden it was. The playing was OK, all the right notes in all the right places, but overall the emotion and feeling that I experienced didn't come through. Having seen that, it wasn't hard to improve the presentation for the next time. Having someone record your playing might help you.
Tony F.
Post Edited (2022-04-08 09:54)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2022-04-08 21:24
Hi Tony,
I'm reallly relieved to know that that is not just me. Do you think it seems so loud to us because the sound is conducted to our ears through our teeth? I gather that bone conduction of sound is a big thing.
I have seen audiologists actually test how well my son can hear through the bones of his head, without his ears being involved at all, which really surprised me.
This is an article where I read about it.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/153374/scientists-explain-more-detail-hear-bones/
Definite agreement on the vote for watching ones' self on video though. I find it immensely helpful. (Though embrassing, and expensive, due to instant need for new clothes and haircut in my case.)
Jen
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Author: kehammel
Date: 2022-04-08 23:50
Do you mean this piece, Winnie?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXeWiixwEz4
One approach could be to watch and listen to this clarinetist, then immediately pick up your instrument and imitate what he's doing. If you watch his face and listen to his phrasing of the part, it seems as if he's telling a story, and that helps to give the music character.
Once, when I was having trouble playing a part well, my teacher played the part and had me imitate him. He then remarked on how much better it sounded.
Why would that even work, one might wonder? Certainly it's true that having technical control over one's instrument is critical, and no amount of "feel" for the music is going to cover up poor technique. My opinion (others may disagree) is that there's too much multitasking going on during a performance to think separately about every aspect of articulation, volume, phrasing and so on in real time.
Instead, having a mental picture of the whole musical passage serves as a kind of template or shortcut to make all the technical stuff work in the right sequence. One way to get that picture is to imitate a good player while everything you heard is fresh in your mind.
I've heard music referred to as a kind of rhetoric- the player is telling a story. If I'm telling a joke, for example, I might pause and give my listener a look before relating the punchline. People tend to enjoy the story even more when you do that. The clarinetist in the video is doing exactly that with his phrasing, even with his facial expressions.
Of course I don't mean that this particular player needs to be your model- You might find another performance that you prefer. Good luck with your solo, you'll do just fine!
Ken
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2022-04-09 01:36
So what do people do to show that a piece of DANCE music has struck an emotional chord with them? Why, they clap their hands and join in the dance. They get their feet moving. In this orchestral piece, the clarinet has a big burden of introducing a dance theme and awakening attention to it. Soon other orchestral instruments will pick up the melody and introduce contra-melodies, but the clarinet is like the first beam of sunlight breaking through the clouds of morning to let everyone know the night and time for sleeping has ended. You've got to WAKE THEM UP. Go in a park with a percussionist friend. Have them click out that little rhythm pattern on a wood block, and you start playing the melody over it You will know you are playing with emotion when onlookers stop looking, nod their heads, snap their fingers, and start their feet moving. Then you will have struck gold. You don't have the right emotion in dance music till you get bodies warmed up and feet moving. The emotion of the dance is a group vibe, and yes, it is contagious when it's working right. The clarinet must be in the imperative mode from the beginning; it must unmistakably say "Rise and shine; open your eyes; sleep's over; get up and dance." Do you know the words to Bob Dylan's "Mr. Tambourine Man"? Something like Hey Mr. Tambourine man, play a song for me; in the jingle-jangle morning I'll come following You. You've got to be the Tambourine Man and provide the "jingle-jangle."
Post Edited (2022-04-09 19:27)
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Author: Winnie
Date: 2022-04-09 06:02
I completely understand the video dynamics! I was recording my solo the other night and I noticed the dynamic contrast was rather small than in person. I decided to make it more dramatic and the results were better but still not what I wanted. It could be that my microphone is not the best but this reminded me of how the audience may feel without being able to hear the dynamic contrasts.
Dynamics are relative and for the audience to be able to hear my solo clearly I may have to change the bases of my volume, my mezzo piano may have to turn to mezzo forte or forte to fortissimo. Again, thank you for the advice!
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Author: Winnie
Date: 2022-04-09 06:05
Yes, that is the piece I was referring to! I tried to imitate his articulations a while back and it made a difference but I was unsure if my directors liked the changes. I’ll probably come back to it next practice session and imitate parts that put more emphasis on the tenuto markings.
I didn’t notice the facial expressions until your comment, I see now that the clarinetist is telling a story! Next rehearsal I’ll remind myself that this solo starts a story and dance, I'll try to convey that in my playing. Thank you for your help!
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Author: Winnie
Date: 2022-04-09 06:09
Thank you for your comment! When I remarked about my directors trying to get the whole band to play with style, something they said was “If you are not moving, dancing, or swaying during this piece then you are playing it wrong.” Your comment reminded me of that.
The imagery from the clarinet telling a story and waking up the rest of the orchestra to dance made sense to me. I never considered that the clarinet was just an introduction to dance as it adds on players like the oboe solo, to a duet, and then the full orchestra. The solo invites other players to dance and even the audience at the end with its repetition of rhythm. The imagery helped me a lot in understanding where I fall into this story. Thank you so much for your help!
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Author: LFabian
Date: 2022-04-09 10:44
If you can sell and are having fun, the group will respond in kind.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2022-04-09 13:10
CPE Bach said:
“If you are not moved by what you play, you will not move others.”
Peter Cigleris
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Author: DougR
Date: 2022-04-10 21:14
I have a couple of things to offer here that may (or may not) be useful.
Some years ago a study was done (and I'm sorry the details on who, when and where are lost to me now) about expressivity in music. A solo musician behind a screen played a piece twice. With one attempt the instruction was to play the piece as freely and expressively as possible--to let the player's imagination soar, and put as much feeling and interpretation into the piece as possible. With the other attempt, the player was instructed to play the piece following all the printed markings as robotically, precisely, and faithfully as possible but with NO "interpretation" whatsoever—consciously adding nothing “emotional” at all. When the audience voted on the results, one rendition was voted emotionally riveting, clear, and very moving, conveying expressive nuance remarkably clearly; the other version was voted ... MUCH less so. You've already guessed which was which.
The lesson I take from that anecdote is that it is ENOUGH to rigorously, even robotically, hit ALL the right markings in the music at 100% accuracy. We always feel like we have to "add value" somehow when we play, and often when we "TRY to add value" we're just getting in the way of the music's emotional truth, and the composer's intent. I don't necessarily disagree with anything anyone's said so far, and I do agree it's important to dig into the emotional values of the music.
What does concern me is putting impediments in one's own way: setting oneself up to fail by demanding—-attempting to force even—-emotionality (by which you mean what exactly?--setting up a bunch of internal benchmarks like, am I feeling emotion right now, and if not, OMG what's wrong!!?? Do I need therapy? And with that, there goes your focus, that should perhaps be on playing the music as perfectly "as-written" as possible). You can't force emotion. You can "let" emotion happen, but you can't make it happen. You can also trust that the composer knew what he/she was doing, writing down all those dynamics. Anything added to them by the player, MIGHT be "coals to Newcastle," or even obscure the composer’s intent.
Does the success or failure of a performance depend on "am I moved or not when I play the piece?" What about the audience? Isn't the audience the point? If they're not moved, but I the player am, did the piece succeed?
My point is that PERHAPS merely playing the notes and the dynamics and the other markings the composer wrote down, aiming for 100% fidelity, is enough. An accomplished performer like Mr. Cigleris has been doing exactly that, and more, his entire career, and I'd imagine he has an entirely different "map of the world" than I do when preparing a piece (and it hardly needs to be said that no one's booking ME into a studio to record English clarinet sonatas!). I prefer to keep goals as simple for myself as I can when working on a piece--which helps me keep the level of confidence needed to (hopefully) put a piece across successfully to the audience. (Nothing kills your confidence & authority like continual self-scrutiny while you’re playing the piece.) Start simple, keep it simple, follow the composer's intent as expressed in the markings, and trust that the piece will succeed FOR THE AUDIENCE. If I get moved as well, that's a bonus. That’s my $0.02. Hopefully useful.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-04-11 04:10
Well................
Just this afternoon I was listening to a presentation of Rosamunde on Sirius Radio without knowing what orchestra was playing until the end. I hadn't heard that music for many years since I had lost track of a Karajan recording from the 70's that I had. As I listened I was waiting for those exciting parts to pop up and realized that I was listening to them! The difference was "the interpretation." At the end it turned out that the current rendition was Szell and Cleveland, certainly no community orchestra but I found it quite lacking in comparison to the trusty recording from my past. You can do A LOT with the printed music. Don't think otherwise. That is what musicians do.......they render the ink.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: brycon
Date: 2022-04-11 22:30
Quote:
The lesson I take from that anecdote is that it is ENOUGH to rigorously, even robotically, hit ALL the right markings in the music at 100% accuracy.
So in the case of the first movement of Bach's g minor sonata for violin, for example, there isn't a single dynamic or expressive marking. You'd recommend, then, arbitrarily selecting a dynamic level, say mezzo forte, and sustaining it throughout the entire piece without the least bit of nuance? I'd certainly hope not.
Doing only what's on the page isn't a serious suggestion. Anyone who's spent any time with music knows that there are expressive nuances encoded in the music itself that aren't otherwise notated. An appoggiatura, for instance, is a moment when most musicians press on the dissonance and relax on the consonance. Unless you're dealing with a hack editor, however, an appogiatura isn't often marked in the music (that is, you have to be able to speak the language of tonal music to recognize and perform one).
Quote:
...we're just getting in the way of the music's emotional truth, and the composer's intent.
Brahms provides a good example of when doing what's on the page gets us further from the composer's intent. We know from Fanny Davies's first hand accounts that Brahms performed written hairpins not as dynamic shapes but as rhythmic stretchings. He seems to have used the marking to denote a moment of expressive potency that requires a bit of extra time or what we'd refer to as "milking it." Apparently, Brahms's approach to tempo was highly elastic, slowing down or speeding up rather frequently without any indications of a change in the music. Again, unthinkingly following the page bulldozes the nuance of Brahms and turns it into something that sounds as though it could be any number of other pieces.
Quote:
What does concern me is putting impediments in one's own way: setting oneself up to fail by demanding—-attempting to force even—-emotionality (by which you mean what exactly?--setting up a bunch of internal benchmarks like, am I feeling emotion right now, and if not, OMG what's wrong!!??
This point, however, is a good one. I'd only add that when a conductor in an educational setting asks something like "play more expressively," he or she then needs unpack the request. "Play expressively" isn't pedagogy, it's a command that one might get in a professional situation. An educator needs to demonstrate by singing the passage or discuss whatever he or she feels the student is lacking, such as air shapes, rubato, tension and release, etc.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2022-04-11 23:15
Well in the future look up the composers and the piece! In this case it's a Mexican dance style. I've been to Mexico many times, I live a few hours from the border. Well this amazing culture loves to dance! So play the piece with a lot of flare and maybe happiness! Lots of expression. as the notes go higher play with more excitement! Don't hold back unless the conductor asks you to. Get the feeling that you are dancing with the people and they are dancing to you playing.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: DougR
Date: 2022-04-12 07:28
Bryan, interesting points. Of course you don't play Bach per original manuscript, as you say there are no markings at all. However there ARE plenty of authoritative editions available, full of expressive markings, and if I were playing Bach, one of those is what I'd recommend. And if I trusted the editor, I'd recommend playing what they put on the page, with 100% accuracy (unless I had some specialized knowledge to the contrary from a source like Fanny Davies, of course).
But that's all maybe beside the point, including what I wrote myself. The original poster said "I'm really having trouble trying to give it more spice or jazz"... "but there's no emotion."
I was hearing someone placing a burden on herself, without exactly knowing how to fulfill it, and apparently getting no pedagogical help. My point was, start by relying on the printed page, and take the burden off yourself. BUT, you're right too in that the actual printed part is pretty sparsely marked dynamically. What's marked provides clues, certainly, and JUST playing the part is a starting place. But the full flavor of the part would perhaps have to come from some awareness of the danzon--if you will, a Fanny-Davies-level immersion in the style and feel of the form.
I imagine Winnie, the OP, has it figured out by now, but if it were me, I'd spend lots of time listening to Paquito D'Rivera, soaking in his lyricism, and absorbing the way he approaches the danzon, and then just play the damn solo with THAT feel and physicality in mind, without overthinking it.
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Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2022-04-12 20:20
When it comes to dynamics, the most useful analogy I heard was to think of dynamics like stage makeup. It looks garish close up, but is completely appropriate on stage. The same with dynamics - you have to OVERDO them in your head, and then they will sound appropriate to the listener(s). I have found that to be a useful analogy for students.
The other analogy I find useful for more advanced students is to picture some great composer in the audience transcibing your playing. Did you make enough dynamic contrast for him/her to write down a change in dynamics? Or was it so subtle that it wouldn't be art of his/her transcription? Same concept for going for mp to F. Woud the composer write down F, or mf?
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2022-04-13 01:08
Wow, if I had to play the Danzon 2 solo knowing that Maurice Ravel was in the audience transcribing me and I was expected to sound like Paco D'Rivera, I would be so scared, I wouldn't even be able to show up for the performance. How the solo is played depends on the characteristic sound of the ensemble, the conductor's wishes, and the specific talents and taste of the clarinetist. Three examples come to mind. Ricardo Morales, guest appearing with the Berlin Philharmonic plays it with a soft-edged, cooing kind of sound, sweet, fluid, and mellow and sure to blend with the German players. He gently nudges the others to join him in the dance and preserves a nice blend throughout. https://youtube.com/results?search_query=Berlin+philharmonic+danzon+no+2
In contrast, the solo clarinet with the Toulouse Wind Orchestra (Camille Artichaut?) has a more pointed vibrant intensity to match the French woodwinds and makes much more of a directed crescendo up to the highest note of the melody; more assertively, he wants to make sure everyone--especially the oboist-is wide awake and participating. The split screen captures the conversation he is having with the oboe beautifully. https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z95OXSmoKik. I would caution that only players who successfully play jazz for a living should ever even consider "jazzing up" a piece. Note that there is no hint of jazz in the performances of either Morales or the Toulouse clarinetist, and both are way more than adequate.
Pasqual Moragues in the Orchestra de Paris explores yet another approach; like some nocturnal creature, he slinks about smoothly and evenly, dark as night even on the high notes, almost silently arousing each member from their slumber. His is the most legato surreptitious approach, without fanfare or much variation in dynamics. Yet in this orchestra with this conductor, he is remarkably effective. https://youtube.com/watch?v=pjZPHW0qVvo.
All three performances are wonderful--each right for the respective ensemble and soloist. There are innumerable ways to play the solo well and innumerable ways to play it less than well. Finally, do it naturally and in a way that makes it a matching part of the ensemble effort. Talk to them in your phrasing; if the conversation sounds interesting, the audience will find it expressive as well.
Finally, Winnie, as a postscript, since so many on this list have suggested that you listen to Paquito D'Rivera, I'm going to suggest also that you listen to him--he is a great and inventive musician in Latin jazz--but after listening you should NOT imitate him. He is too playful and full of mischief. This solo calls for a more dignified, formal, and sober approach. Listen to Juan A Ferrer play the Contradance by D'Rivera in suitable jazzy style. Then listen to how different Ferrer sounds when he plays the Danzon 2 with the Sinfonia de Galicia. No joking around and all seriousness--straight and somber and quite beautiful, I would say.
Juan Ferrer does Rivera: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=contradanza+juan+ferrera (Top Hit)
Juan Ferrer with the Sinfonia de Galicia on Danzon 2: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Danzon+no+2+Sinfonia+de+Galicia. (Second Hit)
Post Edited (2022-04-16 17:09)
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Author: DougR
Date: 2022-04-13 17:10
Seabreeze, thanks for those links. Looking forward to exploring them!
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2022-04-16 04:14
1. First and foremost focus on your tone. If all you do is focus on the sound, expression will improve.
2. I don't think about "emotion", as much as what the music (or I) are communicating. If you don't know, just pick something, like an image. See if it works and go from there. How do you want the listener to feel?
3. I think you have to be moved to move others, but you don't have to be what people think of as "emotional". Think about how you feel when you love selflessly, see beauty, or have a moment of quiet, or have fun.
4. Try listening to Paquito D'Rivera, some Cuban Jazz, or other Latin American Music (Brazilian, Mariachi, Nortena/Nortenia) to get the feel. Everything is a dance. Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfgVPIa_bq8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxF4tEssUfY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TvKrmUk2UM
https://www.facebook.com/100012244484857/videos/434338736984272/ (One of my favorite ever.)
Even this:https://youtu.be/5Q9bAWGEkcE (classic)
I found this Venezuelan playlist that looks good, and is probably more appropriate. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhkzy8fOOe0ugHFTxWxzMt8tqZqbJ8NOB
Franz Bruggen says that the most important element of music is rhythm. It includes more than the written note values.
- Matthew Simington
Post Edited (2022-04-16 04:46)
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The Clarinet Pages
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