 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: crusius
Date: 2019-07-28 05:48
Hi all,
I was at West Valley Music today (Mountain View, CA), and they had two CSGs in stock - one silver plated, one Hamilton. They can and will get more.
Just throwing this out there - it looks like CSGs are available in the US, it is just a question of dealers wanting to distribute them bad enough.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steven Ocone
Date: 2019-07-28 16:55
If you can make a trip, Yamaha has ateliers in NYC and LA. They would have a larger selection of instruments and be able to give advice on barrels.
Steve Ocone
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-07-28 17:37
CSGs have always been available in the US as far as I know.
One thing you can do is arrange an in-store trial at any Yamaha instrument dealer. I did that at a Ken Stanton in the Atlanta area. Turns out I didn't need to have the right of refusal after all, I bought it on the spot (with the Hamilton plating).
.................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2019-07-28 18:22
Six or seven years ago, when I was actively looking for a place to try many CSG’s, I contacted the Yamaha atelier in NYC. Over the course of several months they never had more than four in stock.
I would suggest anyone who is interested calling ahead of time to see what the inventory is like.
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: crusius
Date: 2019-07-28 20:43
For some reason I was under the impression the CSG III was not available here. I don't remember seeing it in the Yamaha US site, for example - but it is there now. It was certainly very hard to find it online, which was one of the reasons I ended up ordering one from England (it is also cheaper from England with the current £ rate).
Regarding the LA atelier - I've read around that you have to make an appointment. Is that the case?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gwie
Date: 2019-07-29 18:37
It's difficult to find any retailers that carry Yamaha instruments in stock in the quantities that they carry say, Buffet. But, any authorized Yamaha retailer can set up a time for you with the LA or NY atelier so you can try out instruments there. My first set of CSG's came from the LA atelier in the Fall of 2007, after the Vancouver ClarinetFest.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-07-30 01:23
Here's the deal with the Yamaha's CSG's.
They are a straight bore, the CSG's. No tapers inside the bores like the other pro models such as the CSVR's and the SEV's.
I've tested all of them at the factory here near Disneyland. The sound room is amazing as it is not like a closet. It sounds like you are in the very best stages in the world, such as Severance Hall in Cleveland. This has always been a favorite hall. Yes I've played at most of the great halls in the USA.This Yamaha testing room is one of the very best.
The CSG's lasted model is a shade brighter than their other models and I think this may be why players don't buy more. The clarinet plays extremely well, no tuning issues and you can use a French mouthpiece on it. The barrels are very small, I think around 56mm's or so, maybe 58, I can't remember, but you can look it up at the Yamaha site. The horns are a tad bit more expensive, but there is also an added tuning low E key and hole, which I enjoyed. Every note speaks very well. The pads are special quality leather white leather.
I don't mind the brightness because the sound will carry very well and with a the right mouthpiece you can fix this.
I'm surely not telling you not to buy this. You will be very happy with the CSG's, mainly because it projects so well and the sound is so good.
With Yamaha if you buy this you can return, no questions asked. But make sure your store is aware of this. Don't get stuck with a restocking fee of 15 percent or more.
These horns are more accepted in other countries such as Canada. A few major symphony players, not many use this horn. I feel you will be much happier with the CSVR or the latest SEV models. The bores are tapered and the sound quality is a bit warmer.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jordan Selburn
Date: 2019-08-02 18:30
I play on a set of CSGs, and several of my colleagues do as well. They're not perfect clarinets - sorry, Bob, there are some intonation issues (first line E can be *very* flat, for example) though they're generally controllable - but sound very nice and respond fairly evenly across the range. The sound is flexible enough that they can fit in a chamber group as well as musical theater pit orchestra playing 20's jazz.
As an aside, crusius, we're neighbors in the South Bay. I've played a number of times with the owner of West Valley Music; she's a great person and does like Yamaha clarinets!
Jordan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: crusius
Date: 2019-08-02 19:08
Thanks Bob - I did end up buying that CSG (the second CSG in two months, should have kept the first one!). It is its own snow flake thing - doesn't fit in any of the cases I have, for example, because of the longer upper joint, and the bell won't fit in the Yamaha case with the K&M stand in. The sound is great, though, and intonation was better than the CSVR and SEVR they had there.
Hi Jordan - yes, we're in the same neck of the woods (I see you're in the San Jose Wind Symphony, great group). You're right - she's great, does love her Yamaha (plays on a CSG). They have great prices too (the web site has the "normal online prices," so it's misleading).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: KaiLiau
Date: 2019-08-02 22:21
For the first line E being flat, I think you can use the banana key directly below (for E-flat) or the one further below (for D-flat) to vent to raise the pitch just enough.
Sorry I am at work, away from my clarinet to tell you which one exactly but I am leaning toward the later. I have been using this trick for longer E notes.
I remember a brand new CSVR I tried had the same issue (1st line E being flat) so it's probably a Yamaha thing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-08-02 23:51
Jordan Selburn - Hi John, I have to agree with you to a point. As I've stated a few times before I spent a long time looking for the correct barrels for the CSVR's. A reverse taper, 10mm's for the A clarinet.
Also the bore of the mouthpiece has a lot to do with tuning. As players we have to be flexible but finding a short barrel for the CSG is much harder and this can be frustrating. As we know this barrel is so small at 56 or 58mm's.
Crusius - Way to go! Have a blast with the horn. You will surely like the big round sound. Don't make any adjustments to the actual clarinet for at least 6 months until it's broken in. You can mess with barrels, mouthpieces and things like that. I did put cork pads on the upper register of my horns. Only because I like the feel of cork. Leather can be spongy. I do my own repairs so the total cost was about $3 for the cork and it was well worth it.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-08-03 00:02
Actually the more ideal length CSG barrel is 54mm (Yamaha's smallest is 53.8).
Allan Segal will custom make this length no problem. And I have one of his barrels which is still my "go to" for the CSGs
................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Peacock
Date: 2019-08-03 18:20
Bob Bernardo:
> They are a straight bore, the CSG's.
> No tapers inside the bores like the other pro models
> such as the CSVR's and the SEV's.
Forgive me, but I have to disagree with this. I had a CSG III Bb on trial recently, and took the chance to measure the bore. For the upper joint, the dimensions at top and bottom were 14.98 mm & 14.68 mmm. That taper of 0.30 mm is within the range of figures you'll find on Buffets. So which the CSG bore clearly does something different, it's still like basically every modern clarinet in being markedly narrower at the middle of the instrument (incidentally, this is a statement that also applies to the Buffet BC20, which the publicity for the new Tradition model describes as having a cylindrical bore).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-08-03 20:43
John you didn't understand what I wrote. Please be careful! Send an email to me and I'll be happy to explain this.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2019-08-03 20:45)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2019-08-04 00:15
John Peacock - yes this been covered in other threads, the CSG does not have a perfectly cylindrical bore over its entire length, but is considerably "more cylindrical" that other models. I guess marketing decided it was easier to just say "cylindrical".
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-08-04 05:01
The distinctive part of the bore that I am aware of is that the "flare" at the bell end of the bottom joint happens much lower than with a standard Boehm clarinet. This is more typical of a German clarinet bore. The other nod to the German clarinet set up is the longer upper joint and the correspondingly shorter barrel. But this does NOT mean it SOUNDS German. It is a Boehm sound through and through.
.............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2019-08-04 05:40
Some (many or most? I can't say) German clarinets don't have the flare until after the lowest tone hole - but for this you DEFINITELY need the double tonehole for F/C and a vent in the bell!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-08-04 07:32
One might say that is IS necessary on the CSGs. David Shifrin had the good folks at Yamaha in NYC place a full sized cup vent on his bell rather than the perfunctory mechanism that the CSG III uses just for the low F. You really hear the problem on the "A" clarinets.
I happened to notice that several of the Patricola models have open holes (larger than the Uebel Superior but still smaller than a standard large cup) on their bells. Maybe a vent hole placed on the bell close to the tenon may help the CSG.
.............Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2019-08-04 14:55
It would be far less tiresome if you just trusted that I know what I am talking about.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-08-04 18:11
I completely agree with what you said. I only add what can be necessary for some depending on the results they get from their CSGs.
I played Wurlitzer 100Cs for 12 years. We both know what you are talking about. No criticism meant in the least.
Just thought I'd add a video where you can make out Shifrin's gizm on the CSGS (1:34, 1:55 and beyond). I had to hunt a little since it seems that more recently he is playing MOBAs. The other reality is that a lot of us just switch gear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiz-m7lh0_E
.............Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2019-08-04 22:28)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
