 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: rrayneau
Date: 2019-02-11 16:20
I am 67 years old and have been teaching myself clarinet for 15 months. More recently I have had a few lessons but these have now stopped. I hope to join a community band soon.
When I started I mistakenly had the mouthpiece on upside down. This lead me to develop a double lip embouchure which seems to suit me.
I have been helped by the videos of Michelle Anderson, Tom Ridenour and by reading this board. I appreciate that you all give time to help newbies like me.
My question is this. I practice in my garden shed. Outside temperatures currently here in the Uk are about 5 degrees C.
Most of the notes are significantly flat even after warming up and with attention to good technique. I assume this is related to the temperature.
My plan is to buy a barrel about 64 mm( current one I think is 66). If it overcompensates and goes sharp I could then pull out. The amount will probably change with the prevailing temperature throughout the year.
Does this sound like a good plan and where might I get such a barrel in the UK? I cannot find one online. Any advice is appreciated.
Best Wishes,
Bob
Buffet Prodige, Vandoren 5 RV, Legere European 3
rrayneau@gmail.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2019-02-11 17:46
rrayneau wrote:
> My question is this. I practice in my garden shed. Outside
> temperatures currently here in the Uk are about 5 degrees C.
> Most of the notes are significantly flat even after warming
> up and with attention to good technique. I assume this is
> related to the temperature.
> My plan is to buy a barrel about 64 mm( current one I
> think is 66). If it overcompensates and goes sharp I could then
> pull out.
I'm not sure why you need to do anything to bring the pitch up if you're fairly sure the flatness is caused by the temperature where you practice. Have you tried the setup you have in a room at normal room temperature? If you're in tune there, I'd consider just leaving things as they are. No community band is going to rehearse in a space that's 5 degrees C. (41 degrees F.?). If the band ever plays outdoors, everyone's instruments will be affected the same way.
Being in tune with some arbitrary pitch standard is only important when you play with others so that everyone can be in tune with each other. Unless you've been trained to expect your pitch to match A=440 or you have "perfect pitch" that has become oriented to it and you feel uncomfortable playing flatter, there's no real reason to worry about it.
I'm a little surprised to read that your *fingers* work well at that temperature.
Karl
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Author: rgoldem
Date: 2019-02-11 17:47
A shorter barrel should work fine. Some people say that it throws the internal tuning of the instrument out but I don´t find it necessarily true.
On the expensive side you could try a Paulus & Schuler Zoom Barrel (62 to 66mm). These are adjustable and very well regarded. I have one and it is great. You can find them by searching at Google.
On the cheap side you could try a Chinese barrel. They are sold in several sizes and are not bad at all. I have a couple of them and they can be quite helpful in several occasions. You can easily find them at eBay.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2019-02-11 17:52
If you are playing up to pitch in normal temperatures there's no need to do anything about it.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2019-02-11 18:32
I agree that at that temperature is a big factor here. That said it is always good to have have "clearance" so that you can move up when necessary (I haven't met a community band yet that plays DOWN to 440).
Don't feel you need a Prodige barrel. There are plenty of 64mm barrels out there that you can find off the internet.....for example:
https://www.clarkwfobes.com/collections/barrels/products/fobes-bb-clarinet-barrel-hdp-synthetic?variant=6112183173
Definitely stick with a synthetic barrel........you DON'T want to put your 36 degree air down a wood barrel in 5 degree ambient air (that would be a recipe for cracking).
................Paul Aviles
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Author: rrayneau
Date: 2019-02-12 12:41
Thank you for the helpful replies. I am in tune when I play in the house so I will probably go with the advice not to change anything for now.
I can always change the tuner calibration reference down from 440 to make me feel better.
rrayneau@gmail.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-02-14 09:45
Instruments, mouthpieces and barrels can contribute to playing flat. As well as the player.
I play double lip and have since the 4th grade. I don't say this but people say I have a great sound. Often double lip players do have great sounds, but single lip players do too.
I'd say to stay with double lip because your embouchure, your face muscles are already formed so don't mess with it.
You can surely buy a shorter barrel, but what if it's your mouthpiece? You said you took a lesson from Tom. He is a double lip player. Ask him what he thinks. I also know Michelle and she is a good instructor. You can't go wrong with either of these people.
You can also buy mouthpieces that tune higher. If your mouthpiece is playing flat maybe look into a mouthpiece that tunes higher. Email me if you need more advice. You can also contact Guy Chadash that makes barrels with a tuning ring so you can move this ring until you are in tune. Google him. Tell him I said hi. Also tell him you don't have much money. He charges a lot. But I've seen him in person drop the price of a barrel $50 to make a sale.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: JMason
Date: 2019-02-14 11:40
I am 66 years old and I play in two different venues;church where the piano is tuned to 440 and most of the time feels like 50 degrees; second a jazz band where the sax player always plays sharp 442 or 443 and won't change so everyone else just tunes to what he is doing,(it is a good thing that the keyboard has an adjustable tone slider.) To solve my problem I bought an adjustable barrel a "FACB-01 Freedom Adjustable Clarinet Barrel" from RS Berkeley around $80.00 on Amazon. It is adjustable from 60mm to over 70mm and I cannot tell any sound difference and allows me to play however sharp the crazy sax player wants to play.
But it also helps when I play in church. You play one song and wait 20 minutes and then play 3 or 4 songs and wait another 20 or 30 minutes. My clarinet plays flat when cold but after a couple of minutes will play in tune. With just a twist of the wrist I can play in tune with out any work on my part.
I like it.
Jeff
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2019-02-14 17:00
I forgot to say and ask this. What mouthpiece are you playing on. Is there a name on it? It is very possible the mouthpiece may be too open or too close and we now have a reed issue. The reeds may be too soft. Whatever you are playing on, don't use Rico reeds. The cane isn't the best and they use pesticides. Stay with most other brands. So let me know what mouthpiece and what reeds so I can guide you a bit.
In general double lip players use a less open mouthpiece. For example some players use a tip opening of 1.15mm's or even 1.20mm's and yet even as high as 1.25.
But here's the problem. They are almost always single lip players. They might even bite hard on the mouthpiece to the point that there are marks on the plastic mouthpiece from their teeth. I totally disagree with biting. To me this is kind of old school jazz playing, using softer reeds and mouthpieces with tip openings of 1.20 and more. They bite hard to hit the high notes. This is wrong.
Even the great jazz player Eddie Daniels is at 1.03mm's. You can find him on youtube.
There are always exceptions to the rules but most double lip players like the tip openings around 1.01 to 1.05. A fairly close facing. The favorite tip opening is about 1.03. But I know one guy that plays with a 1.13mm tip opening with double lip. My upper lip would bleed. I'm personally at 1.06 to 1.07. This I feel is perfect for me. I use a long facing, so it's equal to a 1.03 with an average facing.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: rrayneau
Date: 2019-02-15 03:49
Thank you for your responses.
For now I am inclined to go with kdk's advice that it is all relative and I do not need to do anything . I have decreased the tuner down to a=436 and I am now getting smiley faces on my TE tuner app so I am now happy.
When I join the community band I will think about a different barrel. Thank you all for your suggestions with this.
Bob Bernado, I will continue with double lip embouchure. After one year teaching myself I had a few lessons. The teacher was surprised I was using double lip and he got me to change to single lip but I changed back when lessons with him stopped.
I use a Vandoren 5 RV mouthpiece. Tip opening 1.065. Medium short facing.
Legere European 3 reed. Buffet Prodige instrument.
Your observations on all this would be very welcome.
rrayneau@gmail.com
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