 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Timmy7930
Date: 2012-10-30 02:35
I know theres a lot of threads and posts already but I'm curious between two models. The Buffet e13 or the Yamaha YCL-650. They're pretty much the same in price but what about quality, tone, material, etc. Just in general which one is better? Which should I get? Thanks
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2012-10-30 11:21
I could be wrong about this, but I'm not sure that Buffet is currently selling the E-13 in the United States. I spoke to a Buffet rep. a few years ago and asked about it, and all he could tell me was that yes, Buffet did make the E-13, but no, they weren't sold here. Perhaps this information is no longer correct.
From what I remember (I helped a friend select one many years ago) they're nice instruments. If a local dealer does have some in stock, they're certainly worth investigating. I have a little personal experience with the Yamaha 650, and it's a wonderful instrument, although they can be hard to find at local music stores.
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-10-30 13:38
You're going to have trouble even finding an E-13. Usually the comparisson made is between the E-11 France and the YCL-650 since they are priced within ~$75 in the US. For this matchup the YCL-650 is the better instrument in my opinion in all of the respects you listed but especially in build quality. If I were dead set on getting a Buffet intermediate clarinet I would looks for one of the Schreiber-built German E-11's.
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Author: kimber
Date: 2012-10-30 15:47
I trialed a new YCL-650 last month (along with several other brands/models.) It was just okay - I liked the look and feel of the instrument and keywork, but the sound wasn't as deep/resonant as I would have expected. My teacher didn't feel that it was enough of a step-up from my other clarinet to bother with it. I ended up with a used R-13 for about $200 more than the YCL-650 price. A little more than I had planned on, but got a lot more clarinet for the money.
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-10-30 17:24
I own a Yamaha Custom CSV and a Buffet R13 but in the process of buying these instruments I tried a Yamaha 450, 650 and Buffet E11. There are many reasons for preferring either a Yamaha professional instrument or a Buffet R-13, but at the intermediate level of Yamahas and Buffets like the 650 or the E11, I think the choice is much clearer. For quality construction, key work, tone and beauty and pitch, I'd go with the Yamahas. Strangely, the Yamaha 450 with a wooden barrel was entirely satisfying musically and easy to play. Those 450's are commonly available for $600, I think. The one or two E-11's I tried were tonally less interesting and involving than the R-13's I sampled but I'm always hearing that some E-11's are the equal of some R-13's. I didn't find it be true though for the Buffets I tried. If money is at all an object I'd go with a Yamaha 450 over a Yamaha 650. I believe the 450 is one of the most underappreciated instruments for those looking for a quality horn on a budget.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-10-30 18:06
Garth Libre wrote:
> Strangely, the Yamaha 450 with a wooden barrel was
> entirely satisfying musically and easy to play. Those 450's are
> commonly available for $600, I think. The one or two E-11's I
> tried were tonally less interesting and involving than the
> R-13's I sampled but I'm always hearing that some E-11's are
> the equal of some R-13's. I didn't find it be true though for
> the Buffets I tried. If money is at all an object I'd go with a
> Yamaha 450 over a Yamaha 650. I believe the 450 is one of the
> most underappreciated instruments for those looking for a
> quality horn on a budget.
>
Are you sure you are talking about the YCL-450? You seem to be inferring that the wood barrel is not normal but the YCL-450 is a wooden clarinet and all of them come stock from the factory with wood barrels. I've also never seen a new one for less than ~$1100. If we're talking about used instruments then it's a whole different ball game.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2012-10-30 20:58
If you can find an E13 they are a very decent instrument, very popular and widely used in the UK.
From my observations the E13 is significantly better than the original (German made) E11 and the few French made E11s I have seen have not impressed me at all.
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-10-30 23:58
You're right Steve from Ct. I was not thinking about a Yamaha 450. I was thinking about a Yamaha 350 with a wooden barrel that seems to list for about $600. I played one about six months ago and for about one hour. I felt it was easy to play, straight-forward and tuneful. I didn't think the 450 or the 650 was that much better than the 350 (much more beautiful though). However the Yamaha seemed a noticeable step up in the Custom models. Sorry for the misinformation previously. Also the E13 is a model I never tried (only the E-11 and R-13). I understand the E13 costs somewhere between an R13 and a E11. If it were a choice between just Buffets I think I'd go with a used R13, but you need to get with someone who has actually tested an R-13.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
Post Edited (2012-10-31 01:06)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2012-11-01 13:40
"I could be wrong about this, but I'm not sure that Buffet is currently selling the E-13 in the United States."
I did a very quick check of a few U.S. online retailers. I didn't find the E13 listed at Weiner or Woodwind and Brasswind but I did find it listed at Kessler Music. Kessler lists the E13 for about $300 more than Weiner lists the Yamaha.
Yamaha has demonstrated over the years that they are the one major clarinet manufacturer who is willing to compete on price. In my experience, as a general rule, you can expect more for your money from Yamaha.
If you try these instruments, check tuning carefully. According to Kessler, the E13 comes standard with a 65mm barrel. If that's true, I would expect it to be sharp at A = 440. So you may need to buy a 66mm barrel, which will add to the cost.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2012-11-01 19:40
There just isn't a comparison. I had a student who went through the process of picking out a horn.
We tried horns within his price range which did include the Yamaha 650, E-11, E13 and even some used r-13s. The Yamaha 650's were clearly the winners in the bunch. There was also barely any discernable difference between the two 650s.
Quality control at Buffet is just horrendous... I equate it with late 90's AOL customer satisfaction.
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Author: Garth Libre
Date: 2012-11-01 21:44
Because I alternate between what is called a "good" R-13 and a Yamaha Custom which lists for a similar price as the Buffet, I have to agree. There is a consistency, precision, quality and beauty to the Yamaha that the Buffet can not match. There is a certain indescribable something that the Buffet has which has me keep coming back. I'm glad I have both, but I wish the Buffet were made with the same attention to detail as the Yamaha, and I wish the Yamaha had that special Buffet something. For value for a given price point ,,, you can't go wrong with Yamaha.
Garth, 305-981-4705. garthlibre@yahoo.com
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Author: Green Henry
Date: 2018-12-16 10:00
I'd be interested in knowing more about this from a UK perspective (relating to clarinets that are available from shops here), if anyone can advise on this.
I'm an adult beginner, and take it very seriously. I started on a plastic bodied Yamaha student model, which has been excellent. I kept it when I upgraded to a wooden 450 which has the advantage of feeling identical and sounding better. Now I've reached the point where I am about to join a local orchestra and have been advised to get an A clarinet. I'm not rich and I like to keep things for a long time, but I can afford to buy a pair (A and Bb) of "good amateur" instruments - 650s or similar. I would then intend to keep them essentially for ever (as it will take me that long to become a "good amateur"!).
When I retired I wanted to learn an instrument so as to play classical music with other people and I liked the Cat tune in Peter and the Wolf so I chose the clarinet. It's gone from a nice hobby to something like an obsession The main thing I've learned is that playing the clarinet is very difficult and frustrating but also more fulfilling than I could ever have imagined (in the same way that finding a reed that I like is SO difficult but then SO lovely).
On that basis, the cost of around £3,000 does not seem inordinate. But as I say, I'd be planning to keep them and keep improving until I can't play any more.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2018-12-17 00:09
Timmy7930 wrote:
"I know theres a lot of threads and posts already but I'm curious between two models. The Buffet e13 or the Yamaha YCL-650. They're pretty much the same in price but what about quality, tone, material, etc. Just in general which one is better? Which should I get? Thanks".
I cannot say anything about Yamaha clarinets but I have an E12 which sounds very nice and its tuning is very good.
I compared it to my friend's E11 and there was noticeable difference between the two: the E12 was better. Both of us could hear the difference in tone. Both clarinets were made in Germany.
A few months ago I got an GAS bug and bought a used R13.
My wife and daughter who play strings had hard time telling which one ( the R13 or the E12) was better when I played behind a closed door. My wife especialy has very good "ear" and taste when it comes to music.
The repair tech who repadded the R13 said it was a "good one".
I wanted to sell the E12 but can't - it is a very good instrument.
Maybe I was lucky when I bought it locally.
Also, E12 came with silver plated keys which I Iike better than nickel plated on my R13.
PS
I used to play professionally (classical music) so I know when I hear a good sounding clarinet.
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