 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-04-01 20:19
I've been dying to get my hands on a nice 9* for a while. I finally acquired one this week, and promised to report back.
First a bit of background from a 2002 posting:
'The Series 9 (no star) was/is a larger bore clarinet. The nominal bore diameter for the Series 9 is .584". The Series 9* is a smaller bore clarinet with a nominal bore diameter of .577". The Series 9* also had limited undercutting (fraising) in the throst tone area, whereas the Series 9 had no undercutting (fraising).
Neither Series 9 instruments have cylindrical bores. Rather, they have what is know as reverse conical or reverse taper bores. The bore is larger at the top of a section and tapers to a smaller diameter.
The 9* was Selmer's first serious attempt to compete with the R13 with a smaller bore instrument. It can be viewed as more an orchestral type instrument versus a big band instrument for the Series 9. The Series 9* plays with more resistance and supposedly has a darker sound - that of course is very subjective.'
The intonation on the 9* is truly excellent, slightly better than my X series 10G. Top E is up to 15 cents sharp, but that's about the only variance that stands out. The tonal characteristics of the two are similar, but the 9* is beefier, a bit more direct, yet with a R13-esque sweetness that I haven't found with the regular 9s or 10Gs post the A series. The Selmer 9* is exceptionally easy to play for a medium bore clarinet, which is what it is. Being used to a silver plated finish, I find the nickel keys a bit slippery, but that's just me perhaps.
The one I have is a T series from 1964. The wood is quite good, with a satisfactorily smooth bore. I will replace the tenon corks tomorrow, which are too loose, and this should further tighten the already impressive intonation.
Right now I intend to keep it along with the 10G. Unless the Buffet R13 from the same year that's due to arrive in a couple of weeks pushes my buttons any better, that is. But I doubt it: the 9* is a hugely competent instrument that feels very comfortable to me immediately.
Nick
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-04-02 01:15
Nickma,
My two primary instruments are a 9* and a Leblanc L200. Both have outstanding intonation and a very satisfying response. I believe both clarinets have roughly the same internal dimensions (I'm traveling but will be back with some measurements in a few days).
I am using a Portnoy BP02 or a Stowell Wells Schneider B2 with excellent results.
HRL
PS I also have an R13, a Series 9, and a Leblanc Dynamic 2 but the two above are the top dogs!
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Author: susieray
Date: 2005-04-02 05:26
I have a very nice 1966 Selmer 9* which was just overhauled by John Butler. It is in such excellent condition, I do not think it was played very much, but likely spent many years stored away a closet somewhere. I really like the way it plays and the way it sounds. However, I have trouble with the throat tones being sharp.
It has a standard 66mm barrel; I have tried playing it with several different mouthpieces and although it plays slightly better in tune with some than with others, it is still very sharp from open G to Bb.
I would really like to find out if there is anything I can do about this because I really love playing this horn!!!!! I guess I need to try out some different barrels....
Sue
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-04-02 15:39
I found that a 10G barrel delivered slightly more accurate intonation than the one it came with (although without markings other than the selver logo it's difficult to know if this is the original barrel or not). It also seems to deliver a slightly sweeter delivery, but this is early playing days.
Sue, you're very lucky to have found a 'closet' horn. Mine has been played a lot I think, though wood and keys are in good nick, just a little ewar in the places you'd expect (Ab key slight loss on one or two ring keys) but being 50 years old that seems understandable.
Great to hear you love your 9* Hank - I too have tried various Dynamiques/ Dynamics, but I prefer the overall response across the registers on the 9* by far - The Leblancs can tend to play slightly harsh when you push it, whereas the 9* blows sweet no matter how hard it's pushed.
I think the 9* is wonderful for contemporary music in particular, but I still find the projection and purity of the X series 10G something else - in a class of its own, and in this respect, very, very different to the 9*.
Nick
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Author: Ralph
Date: 2005-04-03 13:29
Regarding the sharp throat tones, I had a back-up 9* at one time with sharp throat tones. I had a specialist work on the tone holes (I believe he added tape to make the holes a bit smaller) and the notes came into pitch. After some experimentation and feedback from a Selmer woodwind technician, I concluded that the barrel should have a reverse taper of approximately 0.010". Bore ID at the top of the barrel should be 0.586" and the bore ID at the bottom of the barrel should be 0.577".
Ralph
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-04-04 09:06
Just repadded the 9* in soft leather, as the pads it came with (yellow coloured skin) were unduly delicate, and although only a few months old, were already starting to wear on the edges. I also recorked to obtain better pad heights.
I'm not convinced leather was the right choice having completed the job, as the large ones don't appear to have the depth to fill out the cup. Experiences of leather pads on Selmers would be good to hear. Still they all seal OK for the moment so I shall see.
Nick
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2005-04-04 17:15
nickma wrote:
*******I'm not convinced leather was the right choice having completed the job, as the large ones don't appear to have the depth to fill out the cup. Experiences of leather pads on Selmers would be good to hear. Still they all seal OK for the moment so I shall see.*******
Leather pads come in many different sizes and thickness. If the pad is not thick enough, more glue than usual can be used to install the pad in the right position. Many technicians have problems installing leather pads (the large ones) on the big bore Selmers. It seems that the only right choice of pads would be "stepped" pads and the leather pads are not. The only way to install the leather pads on the lowest keys is to force the oversized leather pad in to the key cup. Oversized pad starts acting like a "stepped" pad and creates more secure seating. It's a lot harder to seat oversized pad properly but it can be done.
Vytas Krass
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-04-04 19:56
Thanks Vytas - very gratfeul to hear from you with your expert perspective.
The good news is that's pretty much what I did:
-I added a little more shellac than usual
-I rocked the bottom of the pad on the molten shellac, then squeezed the edges of the slightly oversized pads (Buffet sized) into the nickel plated cups as I rocked them in.
Although thre center of the big pads feel a bit spongier than usual, the pads have taken a very clean 360 degree impression of the tone holes.
It was this central pad sponginess that worried me slightly, but I think I did the right thing - any more shellac and there would have been the risk of of it forming an unsightly black line between the outside edge of the pad and the edge of the cup.
Thanks again!
Nick
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Author: fserra
Date: 2005-04-04 22:09
Hi. Can any one put a link where i can see a picture of selmer series 9*, because i have a Selmer Series 9, serial number R9434 and in the upper tenor, down the serial number has two *. Any one knows what that means??? Also it has the C#/G# Articulated Key....
Thanks from CHILE....
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-04-04 22:53
I believe the stars next to the serial number at the back of the upper tenon means that it is a 'seconds' instrument. This shouldn't alarm you, but some imperfection means that a regular Selmer 9 has been sold for a little less originally.
However, it's a regular wide bore 9, not the narrower 9* - on which the star is below the 9 in laurel leaves on the front of the top joint as Ralph demonstrates.
Nick
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-04-04 23:11
fserra,
More info regarding your stars by the serial number:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=35734&t=35692
This thread is pretty exhaustive on the subject.
Nick
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-04-05 00:12
I believe the stars next to the serial number at the back of the upper tenon means that it is a 'seconds' instrument
based on what???
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-04-05 09:08
diz
See the link in the posting above yours - I was wrong, it denotes an original joint replaced by the factory (presumably due to the previous one cracking). The serial number on the replacement joint is replicated, but starred. There's a fair amount of comment to support this.
Nick
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-04-05 15:46
Hi,
On the 9* bore size, I found a previous post of mine that has that information.
I said "Several clarinets have a different dimension at the top of the upper joint and at the bottom. My R13 (.586 top and .575 bottom), L200 (.585 top and .576 bottom), and Series 9* (.594 top and .575 bottom) are like this while my Leblanc Dynamic 2 is .588 at both ends of the upper joint. These measurements are approximate since I just spun a caliper in the bore but this measurement is probably "close enough for jazz."
HRL
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2005-04-05 21:11
I have no clue what any of you are talking about. Guess I'm stupid....but dang.....how do the clarinets blow? I've never had a problem with intonation.....i just compensate....pads and all. Wonder if Artie and Benny conversed about all this pad and glue stuff.....OR just played music?
JG
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-04-07 16:31
I'd hazard that Artie, Benny et al DID care about intonation.
Certainly, in respect of the classical repertoire, Gigliotti was reputed to have tried 200 R13s before taking his pick and giving it to Hans Moennig to fine tune further.
Theo King would get through literally HUNDREDS of reeds before settling on one for a concert or recording, and chuck the rest away (it helped she didn't have to pay for them as a Vandoren Artist).
The greats of the clarinet may appear to have effortlessly played, but in reality they were probably meticulous in terms of preparation. In this context it's unconceivable that they wouldn't have been bothered about wayward or inconsistent intonation.
Nick
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-04-26 20:14
The 1963 Selmer 9* is going!
Yes, intonation is fantastic, and the sound is very centered and deep.
But the R13 from 1963 that just turned up gives so much more, and I realise too the 10G is a lot easier to colour - like painting shadow and light.
The 9* plays one way, the vintage R13 and the 10G play any way you want them to, with a sweetness that I haven't found in any other clarinet I've tried.
Nick
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Author: geminiclarinet
Date: 2017-07-20 21:41
Thanks for sharing your thoughts ,Murray
Murray Middleman
Park Avenue West Entertainment
611 Mound Avenue Unit C ,
South Pasadena Ca 91030
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