 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2016-12-11 15:59
Hey! I'm looking for a new instrument and it seems like Lyrique is a strong recommendation for new reliable instruments. I was looking through the website and found that there were 2 models the 576 and the famous liberta. Could anyone tell me the difference between the 2 and which one I should pick and if I should buy the motupeice bundle or not.
Thanks
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-12-11 19:12
I don't own a 576, but I have played one. I own a Speranza (similar to 576, and out of production) and a Libertas. The RCP-576 is warmer/darker/more somber than the Libertas. Libertas is more centered with more ring and core. I think the Libertas overall plays better, for most folks, especially if coming from a Buffet.
It is handy to have both in your arsenal.
Tom makes great MPs ... I only have a couple of RE-10s, but they are warm and play with great smoothness from note to note and register to register. I'd get one of his pro MPs while you can get one cheap with a new clarinet.
I will eventually purchase a 576 ... good thing about hard rubber (and plastic) clarinets is that you don't have to play them constantly and keep a close eye on them and worry about humidity and temperature. You can leave one in a case for months and it will work as well when you last played it ... !
Right now, if I were buying wood clarinets, IMHO, the Yamahas are overall the best deal. Great workmanship, tuning, timbre, smoothness.
You can't have too many clarinets! Right?
Tom
Post Edited (2016-12-11 19:20)
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Author: GenEric
Date: 2016-12-11 21:11
Thanks! Do you have a mouthpiece /Reed combo you would recommend with the 576? I'm thinking m15 with v12 reeds. (Plz not custom mouthpiece)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-12-11 21:28
Well ... Today I am using a VD M13-lyre with 56s #3.5 or Legere Signature #3 or a VD 5RV (non 13) with Legere Signature #2.75 or Classic #3. Tomorrow, I may use something else.
I also often play a Yamaha 650 as well and use the same setup. I am waiting for a drip of disposable income to upgrade to a CSVR or SEVR (?) ... But a Ridenour 576 may be down a shorter financial road.
The Ridenour clarinets are not weird or unusual in MP requirements. The only thing is that they have a naturally warmer, smoother sound which invites a lighter, more vibrant MP/ligature/reed setup, which often has better response. Trying to tame a harsher/brighter clarinet sound found with some other brands by using heaver reeds and darker, less responsive, dead sounding MPs are not necessary.
You can't go wrong with any of Tom's clarinets, especially in view of the price.
Tom
Post Edited (2016-12-11 21:48)
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Author: Shostakovich
Date: 2016-12-12 03:21
The keywork on Ridenour instruments is of a low quality compared to other manufacturers. The keys on my 576 are clunky and fragile, and make fast passages difficult. This will hold you back.
Steer clear, go for a yamaha, buffet or selmer instead.
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Author: AAAClarinet
Date: 2016-12-12 03:26
I've heard that the older Ridenour instruments had some key issues, but I own 3 of Toms Horns made in the last few years and the key work is great. They also sound great and are wonderfully in tune.
AAAClarinet
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-12-12 06:40
In a phone conversation a couple of years ago, Ted Ridenour told me that the factory had substantially upgraded the fit, feel and finish of the keywork on the 576. The Libertas is better/different.
Ditto on Yamaha's workmanship ... if you have the need for wooden clarinets.
Tom
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Author: bookron ★2017
Date: 2016-12-12 07:04
A comment about the keywork on Ridenour products:
I own 3 Ridenour clarinets: An Arioso I bought from them in February 2005; a 2010 Arioso model bought at an auction recently; and a Libertas bought direct last June. The keywork on these 3 instruments is top quality. I think few would believe the old Arioso has so many years on it. And I've put at least 500 hours on the new Libertas already. The silver plating there is showing some wear on the rings, but the action is completely sound.
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Author: richard smith
Date: 2016-12-12 23:01
Like most high price instruments, most are also average with respect to intonation and balance. Try many before buy.
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Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2016-12-12 23:27
Another response about the keywork: I had a Ridenour 576 clarinet from about 6 years ago, and a few of my students got them as well. I never had problems with the keywork, but a few of my students did - I think it was because they weren't as "gentle" with the instrument as I was. To be honest, I could tell the keyword wasn't as sturdy as the Yamahas, Selmers, and Buffets I had played, but it wasn't an issue for me.
I can't speak about the current 576's (as I don't have one), but I will say that the issue has been 100% resolved in the Libertas. I find the keywork solid, dependable, and sturdy. It's a wonderful instrument, and I wouldn't hesitate to play it in a professional situation. Beautiful sound, and really really fine intonation, but what I find most remarkable about all the Ridenour instruments is how even they are between registers, and how easy the altissimo plays.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-12-13 05:04
I'll say that the Arioso (very similar to the lyrique) I have, the keywork isn't really "worse". I just think that if you play with heavy fingers, it'll probably go out of adjustment quicker than other clarinets. I tend not to play heavily, so I've never had adjustment issues and it plays perfectly fine to me.
The libertas that I have and ones that I've tried out feel a little better, a little more solid, and probably hold up to heavier fingers. Still not how I play, but just FYI.
FWIW, I haven't had issues with fast passages on either clarinet. It plays and feels like a clarinet. Maybe the thumbrest feels different, but that's about it. I do and have focused on playing very lightly which might contribute.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-12-14 06:53
Eric -
First, you asked about the Libertas vs 576, and whether to get the mouthpiece option. Ridenour mouthpieces are custom muthpieces. On your next posting you asked what mouthpiece to us, but not a custom mouthpiece.
You should call Tom and chat. He won't steer you wrong.
I'm an experienced woodwind player. I make my living in theater pits, classical orchestras, jazz orchestras, wind ensembles, and small groups. I have some very superb quality clarinets (Buffets, Selmers, Leblancs). My currently most used clarinets are my Ridenours. Even in an my orchestral setting, lately a lot of our current repertoire uses all of my Ridenour clarinets, too! I absolutely love my Lyrique C, A and Bb Libertas. They are fabulous clarinets. Exquisitely in tune, beautiful sound, and very sturdy keywork. Nothing weak or "bendy" about the keywork, at all. I understand that there may have been issues in the distant past, but there certainly are no issues now.
Ask Tom about his mouthpieces. You may really love them. One thing my life has taught me - mass produced mouthpieces (all Vandorens, Ricos, D'addario, etc) are sometimes nice, but never great. There are great mouthpieces out there - Fobes, Grabner, Ridenour, Behn, Smith, and they all also make lesser expensive versions as well, all of which are better than any mass produced mouthpiece.
As far as the difference between the 576 and the Libertas -
Tom Ridenour himself says the 576 is a top shelf professional instrument. The Lbertas is the clarinet he always wanted to make, all his life! So the Libertas is his "best of the best" so to speak.
So, nothing to fear about the Ridenour.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: Shostakovich
Date: 2016-12-14 08:42
The instrument I brought and am unsatisfied with is certainly not old. It seems like my experience was unusual, though.
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Author: SarahC
Date: 2016-12-14 09:20
I can't comment on the libertas... Haven't seen one.
But I have a t147 and have tried a lyrique
The intonation and ease of note production is second to none
The keyword is on the clunky side. Less so on the lyrical, but still not as smooth as the Yamaha or buffet.
I would say the tone probably isn't quite as warm to my ears... But what u gain in intonation I felt was worth the slight lessening of warmth in tone.
I am not sure how old my 147 is... But I can taste the rubber!!!!! Which is a bit weird to say the least!
In Australia the libertas and the Yamaha csr are about the same price. And I think I would struggle to make a choice between those two (if I was full of cash that is!)
All the best with your decision.
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Author: vintschevski
Date: 2016-12-14 16:16
Richard Smith is right - if you can, try as many as you are able to and pick a good one. I have three Ridenour clarinets. My Libertas is a disaster with respect to intonation - some of the tuning problems have been discussed on other threads on this bulletin board. I can't play it in tune with any combination of mouthpiece and/or barrel (including Ridenours), impossible to play in any performance. (Clearly there are some Libertas clarinets with good intonation because this feature has been commented on many times, but mine is not one of them.) The Lyrique is better intonation-wise, but still problematic and I don't rate it better than a number of other clarinets that I have in that respect, and the tone, while pretty good for the price, is certainly not as good as the Libertas, nor does the keywork feel as stable. I suppose that I have been used to playing top-of-the-line wooden clarinets (Selmer, Leblanc, Buffet) and they all sound to me preferable to the Libertas or Lyrique, whether because they are wooden or because they are better clarinets design-wise I can't tell.
Strangely enough, though, my third Ridenour clarinet, an Accelerando, is absolutely superb with respect to tuning and is so consistent tonally throughout the range. It seems to have been developed as a free-blowing student model, so the tone is perhaps not as refined as the other two but with a good mouthpiece and barrel sounds quite acceptable. And it cost a sixth of the price of the Libertas.
I did not have the opportunity of trying out and selecting, my experience of Ridenour clarinets is based only on the three that I own, but it seems clear that like most models of clarinets, they vary in quality. Play lots before buying if you can.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-12-14 19:30
Only complaint about the tuning on MY Libertas is that the altissimo register is on the low side, so you gotta find a MP and reed that will bring the pitch up. Legere reeds, especially the Classic Legere are hopelessly flat on the top notes with "standard fingerings". A good cane reed and a selected MP will largely fix this. This is one reason I am using a Yamaha 650 in a wind band ... a lot of skipping around fast high notes is easier to tune, although the Libertas plays easier with a smoother sound. Since I like the Legere reeds, I can use those with the 650 with better tuning success.
Most people do not report problems with altissimo tuning on the Ridenour clarinets ... so my embouchure/voicing my be the culprit. My early training was sporadic and not comprehensive ... many bad habits from largely being self-trained.
I think that overall, the Libertas outperforms the Yamaha 650 (at about the same price) in tuning, response and smoothness. I do like the sound of the Yamaha at least as well and the feeling under the fingers ... wood "feels" different as it vibrates and as the keys are exercised during playing. It "pops".
The Libertas and 650 are very different clarinets, both great. It is kinda like trying to choose between two equally beautiful girlfriends: One is a Chef in a 5 star restaurant, specializing in southern comfort cooking, and the other drives a 4x4 pickup, restores vintage cars and loves camping ... What GOB in Arkansas could decide?
Again, I look forward to an upgrade on the Yamaha ... will see what happens to my opinion.
Honestly, I think the Ridenour instruments, since they play well, well priced and non quirky, are a no-brainer. The 576 is especially a bargain. Everyone needs a non-wood clarinet from time to time ... you will encounter situations where it is just too risky to subject wood to temperature extremes ...
My 3 cents ...
Tom
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