 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2016-07-16 00:20
Hi there, I'm new here!
Before I talk a bit about an Idea i came up with a while ago, let me introduce myself: My name is Christian, I'm from Germany and study dentistry, also repairing smartphones as some kind of side job. So I guess you could say I like handicraft work.
It's probably a much discussed topic and I reckon you guys in the USA have brought up even more different methods and accessoires for this very important bit of work. Well, one day I realized that Hot Air Stations, which you can find plenty of on ebay and amazon (I have been lucky enough to get an actual Yoyue, it's some kind of quality clone) should be the perfect tool for the job.
Traditionally, people use some kind of soot-free flame (eg. alcohol lamp) to heat up shellac, or more recently hot glue. With the melting point in mind, may I ask: Why actually do people still do that? The temparatures needed shouldn't extend 200°C, plus the flame isn't really precise to work with. It sure was a coincidence that I had a rework station, which I normally use for soldering small parts (chips, etc) but one day I decide to remove a single pad from my Buffet, which I haven't worked on before, and guess what: Using the smallest nozzle, I could easily heat the large Pad Cups on the lower piece WITHOUT disassembling them. The wood barely got warm, I didn't even have to wrap something around to protect it. Seems to me Buffet uses the same kind of glue that you can buy for your heat gun... now that's some efficient cost-cutting!
Anyways: Using a dental pick and a metal spudger (I'd recommend the iSesamo smartphone tool or any other small piece of thin metal) and our heat station, it is incredibly easy to correctly place a pad. I'd definetely recommend disassembling your clarinet if you want to do a complete overhault, but this method in particular and hot glue (what is so great about shellac anyways?) make adjusting your pad a breeze.
Let me close with a little rant: Is it me or do other hobbies connect more via the Internet? A german board I used to visit sometimes did not only come up with little to no interesting content, it also shut down eventually. So thanks to everyone keeping this forum alive!
I'm already thinking of something new: Dental silicone could perhaps make a nice pad too. At least silicone pads are now a thing :D
Best regards
Christian
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2016-07-16 03:03
The alcohol lamp and stick shellac are still my preference for clarinet, saxophone, and oboe pad work, after using them for many years. I haven't investigated other options much but I like them better than hot glue, which heats differently. Never having burned a wood instrument, one must be careful with any heating device, and I time the application of heat by silently counting slow.
There have been many types of pads sold and many work fine. Yet, I stick with double skin and cork for clarinets and oboes, with treated leather for saxophones. My first flute teacher bought me a new Artley flute with silicone pads a very long time ago that were too sticky. Some synthetic pads take a long time to seat properly. However, the new R13 clarinets seem to have synthetic pads and play fine. Good luck in your investigation!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2016-07-17 16:39
Dear Christian, I really like your idea of using dental silicone for pads. We have tried, at the company I work for, to use silicone for pads, but it didn't work for two reasons:
-the silicone wouldn't create an imprint which ensures that the pad seals properly around the rim of the keyhole and falls in the same place every time.
-it is impossible to glue silicone. The only thing that adheres is a silicone putty, but this is messy and never dries.
My question is, would we not have these problems with dental silicone?
Thank you!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2016-07-19 12:54
Dear Ruben, this is going to be quite an experiment, but it'll take a few weeks until I have some time on my hands again. Dental silicone (putty type, but there's also "light body") certainly seems more suitable: It is composed of a base and catalyst which you simply knead with your hands, making them react with each other, and once it has set, it's dry and flexible, somewhat like rubber. You have about 3-5 min to adapt the material and considering key holes don't show any complicated structure, you'd definetly get the correct imprint for these pads to make them seal. In addition to that you can use a special adhesive to make it stick to metal (normally used for impression trays).
May I ask what kind of silicone you used?
@Clarineteer: No doubt, but it costs 5 times as much as a heating station
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2016-07-19 13:39
Dear Christian,
Great! When you get some time, experiment by putting this dental silicone directly in the key cups. I should think that it would fit so snugly into the cup that you wouldn't have to glue it in at all. The only problem is that it has to be harder than putty, but nevertheless "softish", like leather, bladder or cork, in order to seal well. The good thing about silicone is that the pressure waves bounce off it; it doesn't absorb these waves like leather or cork. Therefore, its acoustic properties are better. I don't specifically what silicone we used. We tried different forms but always ran up against the problem of not getting an imprint and not being able to glue the silicone onto the metal of the cup.
Let me/us know about the results of your experiments. You have my personal e-mail address here. You might be on to something big!
PS: How come your English is so good?!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ruben
Date: 2016-09-18 21:07
Dear Kalashni,
This is in reference to your post of a couple of months ago. Did you ever get round to experimenting with pads you would devise out of of dental silicone? Don't hesitate to get in touch with me at my personal e-mail address All the best.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-09-19 11:53
"Sorry" to tell you... more than a few repairers already use hot air torch/gun for this
>> I haven't investigated other options much <<
I have.
I have more than a few flame torches and an air torch... but still almost always prefer an alcohol lamp and an electric heater for clarinet pads. The electric heater doesn't work on lacquer so for saxophones I use mainly the alcohol lamp and occasionally another small torch (or the electric heater for some plated instruments).
I almost never use the air torch for pads. It has too many down sides IMO.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2016-09-19 22:53
Dear ruben,
Sorry for not having replied for a while. It has been a very intense time in my study and I did not get to try out my method. However I will finally fetch some of my silicone this week and write you! Looking forward to this little experiment.
@clarinibass:
Not sure if we mean the same thing. A hot air gun as in "hairdryer-like-way-too-big-way-too-hot-thingy" sure isn't ideal to deal with the tiny cups on our instruments. As I've said, hot air stations for soldering purposes have TINY nozzles for a well controlled air flow and you can regulate the temperature anyways. Tell me, where would be the disadvantage in that? Hot air guns have nothing to do with hot air soldering stations, so I don't know whether we're arguing about the correct term or not.
Let me point it out again, hot air stations are designed for working with microelectronics and allow a level of control you'd never have with a classic alcohol lamp or similiar things.
Who wouldn't want to own an eletric cup heater? The only problem is, it's so damn expensive!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-09-20 08:46
Yes, I meant what you call a "hot air station" with a small tip and temperature control. Mine is a pretty basic but decent one. A friend of mine has a Leister, which is just about the best and costs significantly more than an electric heater, but still doesn't use it for pads.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2016-09-20 11:19
Sorry for assuming the wrong thing - then please elaborate on why you still don't like it too much, because I can't really figure out why you'd rather an alcohol lamp. Now, as someone who doesn't service other people's instruments so I don't require the most time saving tools, I still found the alcohol lamp to be rather unhandy, just because I can't work with it while the keys are mounted on the clarinet. Maybe it has something to do with me using my hot air gun and station a lot anyways...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2016-09-21 10:16
There are a few reasons, I'll try to explain as best as I can. I'm not saying a flame is better, just why I prefer it.
Even though the nozzle is pretty small, it is still harder to see where the air is going, unlike a flame. It might be safer for someone with no experience with a flame, but with experience a flame is not a problem.
You can't use the melting temp of the glue or just slightly above, since you need a significantly higher temp of the heat source to have the key cup and the glue themselves hot enough. Pointing the hot air directly towards the key can be a problem sometimes, especially with some pads that are more sensitive to heat.
With a flame, the glue itself melts much faster, then after the pad is installed, if any more heating is necessary, you heat it on the side so not to have the pad directly in the way of the heat source. This is tricky with a hot air torch.
Not removing a key is not an advantage for me since I always remove a key when installing a pad. Even on the cheapest models I check if the tone hole is flat, what glue was used before (with some glues I prefer to completely remove it and with some glues leftovers are fine).
I started using the electric heater mainly because one of the types of pads I use is more sensitive to heat.
By the way one supposedly excellent saxophone repair shop uses almost only hot air torches for the padding. So it's a matter of understanding advantages and disadvantages of each options and choosing based on that.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
