 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-06-09 18:26
"King of the Hill!"
A childhood game and chant by its winner--even if such gains were only transient, having likely to overcome challengers, its current winner, and at least a few seeking to dethrone the current champ.
But in the game of clarinet, plateaus, at least plateau keys aren't considered the desired state, even if they have their place with the young/old and/or physically or mentally challenged player.
Now--it's not that I don't think I have at least a partial handle on why this is the case. Perhaps the undercutting of tone holes, and/or the partially fillings in of tone holes in the right areas by experienced techs handling intonation/acoustical problems might only best get appreciated in sound through conventional clarinet tone holes, uncovered by all except finger pads. Perhaps the advanced player's deliberate partial covering of a tone hole during slower passages, and for acoustical reasons, could not be realized.
But wouldn't such a setup make play easier? Are there reasons, for example, unlike in the flute market, which introduces non-plateau keys in only more advanced instruments, that clarinets don't share nearly as much design feature differences between beginner and more advanced model instruments, choosing to make nearly all models of the instrument of the non-plateau variety?
Might more beginners stick with clarinet if this were the case? Might manufacturers be incentivized to market product this way, getting players to buy that "2nd level instrument," even if players aren't quite ready for, or can't afford their "R13." (R13, Buffet's original professional model is spoken here in generic terms for a professional clarinet, be it a Selmer, Backun, Yamaha, Ridenour, or a host of other manufacturer's instruments.)
Does it play into (no pun intended) the difficulty of the clarinet, based upon 12ths, compromising to get as many notes in as close to tune as possible?
..or maybe something else, like the instrument's historical evolution.
Does it play into the (soprano at least) instrument's relatively small size, in that less levers are needed than say, in a baritone saxophone where the human hand simply can't make the reach without such hardware?
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Author: Jeroen
Date: 2016-06-09 18:42
A plateau keyed clarinet would certainly be a winner for all those sax and flute players that would like to double on clarinet.
And seriously, also in the top segment I see options for faster fingering by plateau keys.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2016-06-09 19:07
Plateau keyed (in German:"gedeckelte") clarinets were- e.g. by Keilwerth- marketed as „Jazz clarinets“. They were aimed at sax players, so the fingering was a bit different from German/ Albert system. We had a discussion on this topic here two years ago: http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=400708&t=400687
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2016-06-09 19:57
A plateau mechanism is much more complex and difficult to keep in adjustment than the standard ring mechanism. However, almost all oboes have plateau mechanisms. I've picked up a couple of top oboes and everything is amazingly precise. The key movement is maybe 1/10 of that on the clarinet.
As long as there's sufficient venting, a plateau instrument plays well. Many top European flutists use them.
The one disadvantage of a plateau clarinet is that it can't make the Bonade-style seamless legato that most of us learn. Try that, for example, on the sax.
Ken Shaw
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-06-09 21:23
Thanks for that Ken. Having never played a clarinet with plateau key design I wasn't aware of (or could appreciate) the legato advantage of tone holes you describe--and yet (albeit different instrument, granted) I've heard some pretty good legato coming from plateau keyed flutes. There may very well here be differences I don't appreciate, and yet, barring some pin holes (which may be there for the VERY reasons you describe--I just don't know--only played sopranos), aren't bass clarinets also plateau based?
But as it regards the higher overhead in keeping plateau mechanisms working I'm confused. I mean I get *why* this would be the case (the very adjustment issues you described), but saxophones are plateau key based, as are bass clarinets (as above), and for that matter, it's probably even more a challenge I would think keeping the pads under tone holes *not* directly under the fingers, but rather distanced from and actuated by said fingers, in sync, as found in several places on even the soprano clarinet, most notably the forked Bb.
Maybe your point is "less (plateau keys) is more (reliable play time)."
Michael: the reference was interesting but seem to deal more with what a specific instrument had (plateau keys), was (in terms of designer and type of instrument) and its reason for being (marketed to sax players.)
My searches of the board pre-post, hardly exhaustive, didn't shed much light for me on *why* such designs didn't take hold to the extent, like they have, in the flute world, especially given manufacturing based built in obsolescence, and the opportunity to up-sale a "medium level clarinet" (witness the pre-professional line of flutes.) Maybe the difference lies in the fact that until the last 20 years, the top of the line clarinet was much cheaper than say, a Haynes or Powell (i.e. top line) flute--hence the need for the mid-line instrument option/market in the flute world.
A part of me wishes tone holes actuated by my ring fingers, especially the right, could be plateau based given the fast passages that have sometimes resulted in my not completely covering said holes and negatively affecting play.
The cost of such hardware change, let alone the realization that the "problem lies within" (me) sees my pursuing practice over gear here--at least until age related justification finds me in need of such an instrument. Besides, by then, air, teeth, sight and hearing might also be issues.
Youth clarinet is wasted on the young. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2016-06-10 02:19
A couple of years back I suffered from carpal tunnel syndrome, which caused a loss of sensation in the fingertips of the right hand. This caused major problems, as I could no longer feel where I was on the instrument. Muscle memory will mostly get you through, but changing instruments becomes a bit problematic.
My solution while awaiting surgery was to buy a Leblanc plateau clarinet. It was a bit of a gamble, but the alternative was to give up playing for a while. I was expecting that it would take a while to become accustomed to the plateau fingering, but the actual changeover time was about 30 seconds. It completely resolved the problem I was experiencing and I continued to play until I had the necessary surgery to completely correct the condition.
While the keywork is more complex that a conventional instrument, the only time this is an issue is when initially adjusting and voicing the instrument. As has been sais elsewhere, Leblanc keywork is rock solid, and once adjusted needs little tinkering to keep it so. The inability to do a smooth gliss was a problem, as at the time I was working on some big-band arrangements where a smooth gliss was essential, but after a lot of practice which drove my cat mad I found that it is possible to achieve this. The Leblanc instrument is a delight to play.
I'm now back to my normal instrument, but I have the plateau tucked away safely, because at some time in the future I'm going to need surgery on the left hand/wrist and I know that I have the solution.
Tony F.
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Author: MichaelW
Date: 2016-06-10 02:20
Attachment: Register.jpg (39k)
Attachment: Selmer Alto.jpg (286k)
Altos also are made with plateau keys: Here a fine Selmer Paris Q model from 1955 with „pinhole“. Interesting also the elaborate register key/ Bb- mechanism.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2016-06-10 02:31
I do prefer the feel of plateaux clarinets over ring key ones as it's not all that dissimilar to an oboe or cor anglais. I especially champion cork pads in the fingerplates to make them feel firm and positive under the fingers as well as cork pads will last much longer than skin pads.
Provided these clarinets have their ventings set up well, they shouldn't be stuffy. One problem I've seen and had to address on the few plateaux clarinets I've worked on is gaining that extra venting on the LH thumbplate so F# isn't stuffy.
Most clarinet makers making both types use the same linkage pieces, but on plateaux clarinets the left thumbplate needs a much shorter linkage piece so it opens sufficiently. It can be ground or filed shorter (and any other shaping of the top side done) so it moves/opens more in relation to the G vent but both will close at the same time.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2016-06-10 03:26
I truly wonder if astute clarinet makers and aftermarket customizers might be well served by designing gear where the transition to a plateau based paradigm is, like good plateau keys themselves: more fluid.
We're living longer, as a result the population is aging, and were enjoying things longer within the lifespans we have given the emergence of cognitive loss reducing meds.
Unaffiliated with Steve Fox
http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Accessories.html#clar acc
I otherwise suspect that he "gets this."
Post Edited (2016-06-10 03:27)
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2016-06-13 20:39
Interesting Development in the flute world, Brannen Flutemakers top of the line models are basically returning to Plateau keys.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2016-06-14 17:00
There's something nicely visceral about feeling the wood vibrate and having to cover holes that will wreak havoc if they leak. Oboe players will never know this feeling, unless they go historical.
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