 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-11-16 04:44
I've just acquired a 1952 Edgware for restoration. Apart from having sat in a closet for about 60 years it's in fine shape. Its had very little use; obviously the pads are shot but apart from a repad, a cleanup and a polish are about all it needs. General fit and finish are excellent, and the only curious aspect is the bell.
As it was made for the US market it has a ringed bell, and the wood finish on the inner surface of the bell is markedly inferior to that of the outside.
My first thought was damage from a peg, but the surface irregularity is too even for that. Its almost as though the inside of the bell was rough-finished and then never fine-finished. It will come up OK with a bit of work, but I wondered if anybody else has come across this.
The bell appears to match the rest of the instrument in colour and external finish, has no cracking and it has the appropriate B & H markings to match.
Thanks.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-16 06:58
Another thing to consider is the inside of the bell gets wet, so this will deteriorate the finish which is usually polished on B&H clarinets instead of being left in a papered-up or freshly machined state. I've never seen a B&H bell that was left rough inside on any of their wooden clarinets but it can happen - maybe this one slipped by quality control if it still shows machining marks.
Use some 800 and 1000 grit to paper up the inside the bell and then oil it. If you can get a buffing mop inside the bell (using Tripoli on the mop - don't use jewellers' rouge!), then that will bring the inside up to a brilliant shine like the outside.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-11-16 12:36
Thanks Chris, I'll do just that. Apart from the bell, under a thick layer of crud the instrument is in fine condition.
Tony F.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-11-16 21:07
Tony, out of interest does your Edgware have any point screws or is it fully rodded?
I have a 1953 Emperor clarinet and that has all of the keywork mounted on rods just like the Imperials of that vintage.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-11-17 01:10
Hi Norman,
This one has point screws. I have a couple of Emperors, younger than yours, and both also have point screws. One is from the mid-60's and one from the late 70's.
Tony F.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-11-17 07:01
I've just noticed that this Edgware has Mazak keys. I thought these had been phased out by 1952. Fortunately they're all in good condition.
Tony F.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-17 17:02
Are you sure? Wooden Regents from the '50s and the B&H "77" (with an ebonite bell) had Mazak keys but the Edgwares and above were usually nickel silver.
If the row of numbers on the undersides of the LH pinky levers are raised and in a single line, then they are Mazak. If there are four numbers in a 2x2 square configuration and stamped into the metal, then they're nickel silver.
Look for any worn spots on the plating (ring keys, speaker key and throat A key are the usual spots) and see what colour the base metal is - if it's a pale yellow/straw colour, then they're nickel silver. If the base metal is dark grey like aged pewter or lead and looks silvery when scratched with a needle or knife blade, then they're Mazak.
What would help is if you could post photos (and closeups of the undersides of the LH pinky levers) as the key shapes are considerably different between nickel silver and Mazak keys - especially the RH F/C and Ab/Eb touches and the LH ring key vent pad cup and arm are fairly thick-looking.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-11-17 19:11
Tony, thanks for that info clarifies to me the relative positioning of those early models.
There appears to be a significant break between the Emperor and Edgware back then.
I have a 1953 Imperial and my Emperor Ser. 85xxx appears in virtually every respect to be identical apart from the plate which is silver on 926 and nickel on the Emperor. Considering the quite big price differential between them back then (about £30 vs £50 for 926) the Emperor was extremely good value.
A few years later the 926 reverted to point screws in the usual places (it had originally had point screws when first produced in 1946) and the Emperor was downgraded to the parallel "pivot" screws. The Edgware, Regent and similar models also had these "pivot" screws but not sure exactly when change came, certainly the Regents in the late 1940s had proper point screws despite their Mazac keywork.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-11-18 00:42
I literally have a closet shelf filled with B&H clarinets including several Edgwares, several Series 1-10 and Series 2-20 models, a Stratford and a Series 8-10.
What was I thinking?
I'll never have the time to restore them all. I've already got an excellent renovated 8-10 for my own playing (to go along with several other fine Bb clarinets which don't get played much either). Most of the time I get called to play BASS clarinet.
I believe they call this GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). I call it an addiction. But it does demonstrate that, in the States at least, B&H clarinets are exceptionally underpriced for their quality (which is quite good for the most part).
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-11-18 02:50
I suffer from the same sickness, David. My wife asks "How many clarinets do you need?"
I can only answer that I don't know, because I haven't got there yet.
Norman,
FYI, here is a list of my various B&H clarinets with their configurations.
612xxx Edgware, Point screws, Mazak keys (see attachments), Wood. 1951.
176xx Imperial, Rodded, Hard rubber. Possibly 1957.
852xx Edgware, rodded, Wood. 1965/6.
371xxx Imperial, Point screws, Wood. 1971.
575xxx Emperor, Parallel pivot screws, Wood. 1983/4.
536xxx No model designation, Parallel pivot screws, Hard rubber, Ex-Military, Emperor/Edgware tenon rings. 1981.
I have another Emperor out on loan at the moment, not sure about that one. It's mid-60's.
Tony F.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2013-11-18 04:48
Forgot the key pics. Unmistakably Mazak.
Didn't like the pics. I'll try again.
Tony F.
Post Edited (2013-11-18 04:53)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-11-18 05:11
I'm disappointed B&H took this stance and exported Edgwares with Mazak keys whereas in the UK Edgwares had nickel silver keywork.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2013-11-18 15:21
Chris, all of my Edgware clarinets (North American market instruments as far as I can tell) have nickel-silver keywork. I've only ever had one that had the Mazak keys; it was an older example (probably WWII vintage) and I speculated that wartime material rationing is what caused B&H to cast the keywork out of Mazak during that period.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2013-11-18 20:04
Tony, I take it the first Edgware ser is 612xx which would be 1951 and would explain the Mazac keys.
Your 852xx Edgware will be 1953/54 and has the same rodded keys as my Emperor of same vintage.
Your 536xx is most probably an Emperor - these were commonly issued to regimental line bands for the "lower orders" - the solo clarinets would have Imperials.
In the Royal Marines in later times the Imperial was standard issue, at least in the major bands, and the solo clarinets were issued 1010s.
The cast Mazac keys were introduced just after the war on the cheaper models and stemmed from the experience B&H gained in making aircraft parts during the war. They were obviously much cheaper to make than silver soldering numerous small parts on jigs as needed for the pro models.
It is interesting to see the "spin" that B&H put on this development at the time - stressing the ability to readily purchase and fit replacement keys - but not mentioning just why you might need to do this !!
Very few clarinets were made during 1939-45, only a handful of their top craftsmen were engaged part time in repair and building work in between making military bits.
The Imperial (926) was first released in 1946 and all the cheaper instruments (Regent Edgware etc etc) were essentially acoustical copies of the 926 until some while later when some export models were made with smaller bores.
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2015-12-23 09:15
I own a 1953 Symphony 1010 and its great sound led me to acquire a 1972 Edgware on the cheap for mucking about with.
Apparently its first and only owner played it half a dozen times and put it away forever since. I can actually believe it because aside from pads not being in any decent playing shape (very clean and new, but leaking badly) the keywork, body and most remarkably all the point screws, rods and posts bear absolutley zero wear. Not a speck of black or even greyish oil in the threads as I strip it down. Mint-like!
Strangely the serial 361038 is stamped on both upper and lower joints but the upper is wood and the lower is plastic.
Bell and barrel are both wood. Besides the odd wood to plastic ratio the tenon joints all - including the lower plastic - have metal rings.
Has anyone seen/owned a B&H Edgware with wood upper and plastic lower joints? And a plastic joint with a metal ring on the tenon?
V
Post Edited (2015-12-23 09:18)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2015-12-23 10:24
The serial number would date it from 1971-2. It sounds like an interesting buy. I've never come across the curious mixture of materials, but I know that B & H made the Edgware in wood and also in hard rubber. Some variations had bakelite bells. Edgwares for the US marker generally had bell rings, whereas the home market ones had a plain bell. The tenon ring on the non-wood joint is very strange indeed. Others may know more.
Tony F.
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2015-12-23 11:14
It is odd. Mine is a UK/Australian market non-rimmed bell.
Not a US "The Edgware" model.
Beautiful wood and nice nickelsilver keywork. Shame about the plastic section.
V
Post Edited (2015-12-23 11:19)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2015-12-23 13:30
That's odd they supplied it with a plastic lower joint as it would make more sense to have a plastic top joint or plastic barrel as they're the joints most likely to crack.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: dubrosa22
Date: 2015-12-24 01:02
Yes, it would make much more sense wouldn't it Chris!
If it weren't for the analogous serial numbers and the similar wear condition I'd believe the horn was cobbled together from various B&Hs.
Incidentally the pads are all white skin except for the trill keys which are a lousy pressed white felt. Most can be reseated. The felt ones I will jettison.
V
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