 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 20sMusic
Date: 2015-08-10 18:55
Early saxophone mouthpieces often featured a narrow tip facing, no baffle and a large chamber with a round "throat". When you listen to original recordings from the 1920s saxes were played with what I call a very sweet tone and I've heard that the above shaped mouthpieces then in vogue helped (along with embouchure) to produce that sweet tone that I love so much. I've long wondered what a clarinet would sound like if clarinet mouthpieces had those same characteristics: narrow tip facing, no baffle, large chamber and a round (not rectangle or A-shaped) throat. I know of no mouthpieces made that way so there is no way that I know of to actually try one to see how it sounds. What do you think would be the influence on the clarinet tone? I wonder if it would lean toward a very sweet tone also. I would especially like to hear from mouthpiece refacers who may have first-hand experience. Thanks!
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2015-08-10 19:29
Historically clarinet mouthpieces feature longer and much closer lays than used today and many variations of throat shape were used over the years.
However it is important to recognise that acoustically the clarinet is very different from the sax (cyclindrical bore, overblows the 12th, predominance of odd harmonics in the tone etc.) so the mouthpiece shapes that have evolved over time have been optimised to suit the characteristics of each instrument.
Even the lays of the clarinet (more parabollic) differ quite a bit from those of the sax (more radial).
The "sweet" sound of the 20s/30s was in large part due to the specific bores and design of the saxes of the period though the mouthpieces were clearly optimised to suit the tonal fashion of the time.
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2015-08-10 21:00
The 22C mouthpiece sold by Interstate Music has an oval-shaped throat, large chamber, and fairly close tip opening. It does have a roll-over baffle, but if you'd like to audition an oval throat opening, this is the only readily-available one that I've seen.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2015-08-10 21:50
You're describing Rascher's idea of what a sax mouthpiece should be. I never tried one, but from what I've read, they're somewhat resistant.
The mouthpiece is probably a factor, but Norman is right about the bores and designs of saxophones of that era. Several years ago, I was in the market for a used alto and tried a vintage sax from the 30s. I put a Fobes Debut (hardly a large chamber mouthpiece) on it and got that old 20s/30s sweet sound. I then put the same mouthpiece/reed combo on a newer King (the sax I bought) and got a very different sound.
The King fit my needs perfectly, and I had no use for the vintage sax. Still, if I had had the extra money, I would have bought it. I agree with you that there is something about that sound that's very appealing.
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Author: 20sMusic
Date: 2015-08-11 13:36
Thanks to all of you for your answers.
Silversorcerer, thank you so much for your very detailed descriptions. I did not know about the differences in the early sax and clarinet pads and so I learned a lot. It is nice that Prestini can and will make the original design. I listen to lots of original recordings from the 20s and early 30s via the internet. If you like that style of music you can listen via www.glennrobison.com. He has a program every week over the radio from Avalon, California that is put on his website. There are files of recorded shows from months and years past and I really like it. You can also find many original recordings on youtube.com. There are hours of 20s and 30s era original recordings on youtube. One gentleman I recently heard and read about was Merle Johnston. He designed a Selmer-Johnston sax mouthpiece in the mid-30s and you can hear his Merle Johnston sax quartet on youtube.
I still wonder what the influence of a round chamber/throat on a clarinet mouthpiece would be, whether it would sweeten the tone or not.
Once again thanks for the good information you have provided. I've learned a lot. The knowledge on this web site is amazing!
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Author: 20sMusic
Date: 2015-08-12 01:37
Silversorcerer,
Thanks for the really detailed photo of the original equipment pad. It is great that it's possible to get that same style today if desired. I wish you well in your restoration efforts of your instruments and hope you can obtain the desired playability and tone you want. It's great that you can do the work yourself as it will save some money and give you a sense of accomplishment, too.
Dillon Music currently has and has had for a long time a Holton C Melody for sale. They actually have several c melodies but the Holton I'm sending a link to is very expensive as it belonged to the actor Jackie Coogan. Here is the link:
http://www.dillonmusic.com/p-12791-holton-c-melody-jackie-coogan.aspx
There are currently 4 c melody mouthpieces available at www.doctorsax.biz including an original Conn and some more modern ones.
I did find these c melody sax reeds. Here is the link. I have no knowledge of this make of reeds or the store, but wanted to provide you the link "just in case …"
http://reedstore.com/c-melody-reeds/c-melody-sax-my-masterpiece
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Author: Classical Saxophonist
Date: 2015-08-12 12:14
Saxophone mouthpieces with no baffle, a small tip opening, and a large, round chamber were recommended by the great classical saxophonist Sigurd Rascher. Saxophonists who belong to the "Rascher school" of classical saxophone still use this kind of mouthpiece today. These mouthpieces are like the original ones designed by Adolphe Sax. They are also the design that early jazz players used, as other designs had not yet come into existence.
Mouthpieces of this design are still being produced today under the Sigurd Rascher and Ronald Caravan brands of mouthpieces.
These mouthpieces produce a very dark sound with less projection than typical modern classical mouthpieces. I suspect that such a mouthpiece would provide similar effects on the clarinet.
Modern classical saxophone mouthpieces still have little-to-no baffle and a small tip opening, but the chamber size has been decreased, which gives a slightly brighter sound with more projection, while still remaining round and warm.
Modern jazz saxophone mouthpieces generally have more baffle, which increases projection even more and helps provide a buzzy, edgy sound.
As an example comparing the vintage classical mouthpiece sound with a modern classical mouthpiece sound, I will post two videos of the same piece. Keep in mind that one is on C-melody and one is on alto.
Here is Rudy Wiedoeft playing a vintage mouthpiece on a C-melody saxophone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=507B4-WrE0A
Here is Arno Bornkamp playing a modern classical mouthpiece on an alto saxophone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Uz69KF4ao
Post Edited (2015-08-12 12:17)
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-08-12 23:45
Many players started on the C melody saxophone. Benny Carter said that he did. On a $15 Buescher C melody, I played the tune "Nola" with piano a lot and still have the sheet music.
Merle Johnston was mentioned. He came to Los Angeles and had a crowded studio on Melrose Avenue where he apparently was extremely dominant to his students, according to some guys I know.
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The Clarinet Pages
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