 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Ginny
Date: 2001-04-26 01:32
I just joined the local junior college wind ensemble two weeks ago, and its no fun.
I asked for the third clarinet part, after being given the second... Because I am not up to performing the 2nd part after 3 weeks, which is on the schedule.
I practiced a bunch, and I got those third clarinet parts. I was well pleased. Since I only restarted clarinet recently and was not much of a player ever. HE GAVE ME THE SECOND PART on MONDAY after rehearsal and today (the next rehearsal) I got ragged on...because I wasn't up to snuff.
I am often alone on the part, and I stink. Its humiliating. The former second clarinet is playing with the first clarinetist now... We have one more rehearsal, before we are supposed to perform, I don't know the music I don't know my part and there is no way, at my level of playing I can be there in less than a week. I want to quit, but I said I would do this... opinions? Should I just mail the music back? I am afraid if I go talk with him he'll convince me to stay and I am miserable.
I am not big on 'learning experiences,' I am a grown up and have had enough for this life - thanks.
Ginny
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jerry
Date: 2001-04-26 02:00
Woa! Ginny,
What's the worst that has ever happened to you? We are all learning every day (that's part of growing and devloping). There's always the couch and the TV. What does Ginny want out of all this?
Ginny I am just shy of 63, with no prior music knowledge and this clarinet is giving me fits. But I ain't a-giv'n up just yet (I thought about it a time or two - almost every week). I got my first clarinet last Sep. and took two weeks to learn to play happy birthday at my daughter's (the younger one) 40th birthday party. You say no biggie. Hey, this was public, like in a restaurant packed with people - we had to wait an hour and fifteen to get in. We ate, cleared the table and got the cake out of the car, threw it on the table while I slipped a reed on the MP. OOPs, in my haste I broke one and had to redo it. I played HB (twice - cause I scre..., I mean, messed up once)it was a big surprise and everyone loved it.
So, Ginny practice and practice and go for it. Blow it, I mean go ahead and mess up, laugh about it and all will be fine. What happens if you mess up, they gonna take your first born?
Be cool! Do it.
~ jerry
Still in Clarinet Boot Camp
OH! BTW, after my debut (;> one of the waiters mockingly said, "Been practicing that all my life and it's the only thing I know." I told my wife that he didn't realize how close to the truth that was. He must have had a music backgroud and recognized what a fool I made of myself. Guess what. I didn't even know that I had, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I've since forgotten how to play HB and haven't learned to play anything else. Do it, and you'll have a story to tell one day. Good luck.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2001-04-26 02:08
I assume you are not getting paid for this:-)
I would have a private conversation with the director. No matter how reproachful he may attempt to be, it is important to keep the tone of your voice (especially the emotional tone) steady, and hold to your position: You did not want the second part. You did not feel ready for the second part. You have made a more than reasonable attempt to learn the second part but you haven't been able to get it up to performance level. He must either accept that you will play the second part however it comes out, or put you back on third and move the original second back from first to second.
As a last resort, if you are not getting through to him, remind him of paragraph 1 and suggest he reduce your pay.
Making you play too hard a part is not wrong, but ragging you when you don't do it well is. I sing in a choral group. Most of the repertoire is beyond my skill level, but the director would never rag me. Your director is poor.
At worst, he will put up with a poor performance, or he will ask you to leave, and put a "ringer" in your place. You'll probably quit after this performance anyway, so what does it matter?
One more thing, it may be that he really wants to put you back on third, but feels he will lose "face" if he does (or maybe feels that you will? We already know the guy's not the best "people" person, so who knows what he's thinking?), so first suggest in a warm and friendly way that he put you back on third, and maybe he will and it will end right there.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2001-04-26 02:25
Doesn't sound like a well organized junior college program (or conductior) to me from your description of the part distibution and rehearsal schedule. However, quitting without trying to reach an understanding is not recommended. I think that you need to have another talk with your instructor and make certain that he knows exactly how you really feel and what your goals are for the class. Then, if things don't improve, quitting may be your only recourse. Lets hope that he has the ability to listen, provide an enjoyable but yet musically challenging aesthetic environment for you and the rest of the ensemble, and that you can continue to enjoy clarineting for many years to come. Good luck!!!!!!!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Willie
Date: 2001-04-26 03:50
Hang in there! I've always liked second parts over first and third on most pieces. I'm playing third right now in one band as they want a stronger third. I have played second on most the pieces before and it took some adjusting as my fingers automaticly want to play that second part.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jim
Date: 2001-04-26 04:22
Until last month I had never played 2nd. My first time out as a student I went from 3rd to 1st and never went back. Picking the horn back up after 18 years off i've been happy to stay with 3rd in my community band for the past 4 years. I missed half a rehearsal 5 weeks ago and found I had a promotion to 2nd. (Never miss a rehearsal!) I'm actually enjoying it and find some of the parts actually easier than the 3rd as most of the runs are above the break, and there are many more melodious parts.
I have played/ sung for many directors over the years. Some are great, and some are absolutely terrible. Unfortunately I find that those willing to use positive reinforcement rather than "ragging' to be rare indeed. (God bless my church choir director, he is one of the few and I've been singing for him for 21 years.) My band director is a "ragger." I tolerate him because he gets a good sound, and the nearest equivalent band is an hour away. I occasionally sing for a guy who bellows "you stink!" at the entire group. I don't sing with him very often.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mike Irish
Date: 2001-04-26 04:45
stick with it ........ enjoy it as much as you can...... have fun with it....
learn the most you can learn...... all parts of the group are important....
having good players in each section is important.... the first chair first section can not do the job alone...
some thing that was said to me once.... while I was in the service,
I thought I was not ready to move up to the next higher rank, and I expressed this to a person not in my direct chain of command....
He told me that I was derilict in my duties, not to do what I could to move up as quickly as I could.... He told me that a person sometimes needs to move up before they are ready inorder to " grow into the position " .... that until you are there , you can not become ready......
( I hope that made sense )
music can be the same.... if you are use to playing whole, half, and quarter notes, and never tryed 1/8 or 1/16, or faster, you will never be ready for it... you have to be doing it on a regular bassis to obtain it..... again , reflecting on military ( communications ) morse code is the same way... if you only practice at 12 words a minute, you will never get 14 words a minute... but if you practice the harder and hardest stuff, you can obtain the moderate stuff....
you will have to make the choice for your self, but I would like to say, do not take the easy way.... it is not always the best way.....
I was also told one time, when I said " I cant do that " that I only had three " I cants" and I had already used one of them........ I still have two " i cants" left and that was 20 years ago.....
God Bless....
Mike
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Cass
Date: 2001-04-26 12:03
It's hard for me to understand how you feel because I am competitive and always happy to move up if I can get away with it! Hmm, that makes me wonder about the second clarinet now playing on the first part. Maybe this is not about you so much as that second clarinet. Any communication between you and that person?
The reason I wonder about this is maybe that person threatened to quit if not given more responsibility--maybe they think they should be first instead of second and the director doesn't want to lose them. When it comes to your spot, the director probably is having a hard time understanding or really believing why anybody would seriously not want to move up. IMHO most musicians are over confident and not modest and honest about their playing the way you sound. The director has to be a competitive person too or would not have ended up as the director! So probably the director understands people like that better than people like you. Maybe the director misunderstands you and thinks this asking to be third is just "false modesty" on your part and thinks you are sort of asking to be pushed hard, and doesn't realize the tactic is backfiring and making you want to quit.
I suggest you need to be a little more bold about communicating with not only the director but the other clarinet players. Ask *them* what *they* want (privately not together) and I'll bet you find out those top people are very competitive with each other and each thinks they should be first. I bet that's what is really going on here and you are just getting the fallout. If you know what is going on with them then that gives you a start on dealing with it in ways that don't hurt you. Good luck with it, I know it is no fun to be stuck in a job that isn't a good fit!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jan
Date: 2001-04-26 12:34
im not sure if i should have started a new thread...but speaking of parts.....i have enjoyed playing 1st part way back when i first started until i stopped playing for awhile.
i know when I was in high school, and even college, playing 1st part was a big thing. and 1st part first chair was like the ultimate goal. however, when i started playing again, i was put on 3rd and found i was so used to melody instead of harmony parts it was harder for me to do. for some reason he moved me "up" to 2nd the following week and i always wondered if i was being moved "up" or i was too weak on 3rd that he needed a stronger player there so he put me on 2nd. i had an easier time there and enjoyed playing 2nd.
this year i joined a choir and i got 3rd part. i also play 1st part in a band and both seem equally challenging. what im getting at....i am seeing a definate expression from everyone that 1st part is the most difficult and the best position to be in and 2nd and 3rd part get easier and the goal is to move up and out of those parts. arent all parts important and isnt it important to have strong players on each? i always wondered when growing up why the band directors would put the weaker players on 3rd and you can barely hear them and have all the strong players on 1st and thats all you hear. i think it would be good experience for everyone to experience all parts.just some thots.....what do you guys think?
jan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-04-26 13:58
Tell him that you don't want to make HIM look bad by your poor performance. Give me third or I'm out of here. (WHO'S ON FIRST)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2001-04-26 14:29
"What's" on second, and I think "I don't know" is still third. What a team!!!!!!!!! Again, hang in there Ginny and look for the humor. Clarinets don't make very good baseball equipment. Good clarineting!!!!!!!!!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Kinder
Date: 2001-04-26 15:26
I'm going to put one post on the director's side, even though I'm on yours. Being in a music program isn't like taking a math course where your grade rests solely upon you and your work ethic and how well you learn math. In any music class (e.g. band or chior), everyone depends on everyone else. It is up to the director how to "seat" everyone so that the ensemble can be well balanced.
It sounds like you have a small clarinet section to begin with. If you were at my junior college, we'd have about 10 clarinetists. The director wouldn't care which position you "sat" at, as long as you played in tune and with a good tone.
Now if the director's a jerk, remember that he's trying to see and hear a bigger picture. If you've only got 5 clarinetists, he needs at least 1 on first, 2 on second and 2 on 3rd. (Maybe the ones on 3rd need a lot more improving than you do?) I was at a college where there were 2 1sts, 1 2nd (me) and 4 3rds! Sure, I was up to it, but I hadn't played for a few months at that time.
Do try to negotiate your viewpoint. If that doesn't work, play the 2nd part and quit after the semester. Join a new wind ensemble.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sylvain
Date: 2001-04-26 15:27
In my band we rotate, there's is the solo clarinet which gets to play all the solos and always has first part and then everybody else get to play 1st 2nd or third depending on the piece. This way the conductor is happy as he can always manage to have a strong player per part and all the players get to have some fun. As much as playing third part can be challenging for your ears, it is rarely for your fingers, and let's face it, it's nice to play the melody once in a while.
So Ginny, as many have said you should go talk to your band director. And if playing in this band is not fun then you might want to look for someplace else. If you have fun but are afraid of not performing well then don't quit. Sure it is important that others enjoy listening to you but in the end it's your pleasure that matters.
Hope this helps, good luck for your gig,
-Sylvain
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gary Shiozaki
Date: 2001-04-26 15:36
My son, Kenny, was second clarinet in his orchestra when his conductor promoted him to principal. One of the pieces they played was the Orpheus with the clarinet cadenza. All through the rehearsals he kept messing up the cadenza. (He just received his new A clarinet and was having trouble adjusting to the more spaced out keys.) Right up to the performance he kept messing it up...I was cringing throughout these rehearsals. However he kept telling Kenny, in front of the orchestra, that he was doing a fine job. Don't worry about the cadenza. That did wonders for Kenny's confidence. He played beautifully during the performance.
Now perhaps your director is not as supportive, but you have a lot of supporters here on this board. Go on and perform your best. Enjoy yourself!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-04-26 15:50
As Willie said "Hang in there". A long time back in a PBS "Civilization" series, I recall -" the closest most people get to perfection is in the playing of music" [is sic the proper term?], still seems true to me!! While I've played many years, I've never been much more than a semi-pro, and in comm. band we [bassoon, bari sax and my bass cl] are at times subjected to repeated playing of difficult passages to a bit of embarassment, I just grin-and -bear-it! Bass often has harmony-type "solos". In clarinet choir, I was the only alto cl'ist, and that was trying [again and again}. So, just suffer the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" and keep at it as long it is FUN and Education. Luck, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bob gardner
Date: 2001-04-26 16:02
William: very good you picked right up with WHO, and just "because" is left out that doesn't mean he can't play.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2001-04-26 17:31
Maybe if Greg Smith could make a mp for my Louisville Slugger...................:>) (might be a hit!!)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Blake
Date: 2001-04-26 19:22
I was once asked "would you rather be the best clarinet or the worst clarinet in a section and why?" I responded "the worst" because I would learn lots from all the other players and I would want to practice to try and improve. The community band I started playing in this past year <www.dcdd.org> has 9 clarinets and we all rotate around on parts and solos. When we struggle we do this:
Identify the passages we're having problems with.
schedule a sectional
help those with problems learn alternate fingerings, how to practice a passage, and basically woodshed it.
when one or more of us finally get it right.. we encourage each other with congrats all around.
I assume you have a section leader.. use him/her for help too.
The clarinets in our section range from high school experience, plastic student model clarinet, no private lessons, to former members of military bands and music teachers. The bottom line..
We have FUN and feel a sense of accomplishment when we get the parts down and the whole band can do harder music when the clarinet aka the string section get their usually tougher parts down.
We also rally together when the tuba playing director wants 16th stacato runs back and forth over the break "crisper and lighter" You havent lived till youve seen 9 angry clarinet players tell a director to try it on tuba and see how "light and crisp he can make it"
I hadnt played in a group for over 20 years and the first concert I played I had to do Candide Suite on Eb. It took me the whole 3 months of practice before i could get my lip in shape to hit the high E's and G's in the solo passages i had let alone get them in tune and i couldnt find anyone with reeds harder than 3's in the area.... The week before the concert, i found some harder reeds finally <thank you sneezy> and hit the notes perfectly during the dress rehearsal. The director and the section both applauded me and it made all the frustration and work worthwhile. Keep pluggin away! youll get it.
blake
Arlington VA
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
