 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-27 17:34
ok so,
I am a student but have repaired clarinets and repadded a few. I am by no means a tech and will probably never be but I like to play on the best instruments I can.
When I borrow instrument from my local music service, I like to give them the once over and adjust if necessary.
I recently got a bass clarinet, the spring tensions on the single register key and register key Bb are way off and I have no idea how this would be corrected. When the key is pressed (no thumb) both vents open.
Please advise as to how I can fix this.
Thanks
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-27 17:35
Some images:
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-27 17:35
Some images:
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-27 17:39
Sorry, I'm really crap at this!
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-09-27 17:44
There should be an adjuster screw on the upper end of the rod that attaches to the thumb key. Turning this screw right will bring down the Bb pad while raising the register vent pad (note that you should hold both the register and thumb key while making the adjustment) Fortunately this is not an issue with spring tension (which would be relatively difficult to get right) so it should be fairly easy.
Good luck!
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-27 17:47
Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
When the thumb key is pressed then the register, the speaker key opens and the Bb stays shut. It is a spring tension adjustment unfortunately but I just need to know which should be stronger and by how much.
Thanks
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-09-27 18:25
I'm not sure I understand. When both the thumb and register keys are pressed the register vent should open but the Bb key should stay closed.
Are both keys opening when you play a Bb?
In regards to spring tension the spring on the main register key (the one that the thumb directly touches) should be stronger that the keys it holds down.
Put simply if both the register vent and Bb are closed when you aren't touching any keys, then there is nothing wrong with the spring tensions.
Please try to post pics again. If it's not working try a smaller file size for the pics.
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-27 18:36
When the thumb is down and register key pressed, the register vent opens at the top. However, wen wanting to finger a Bb, the register and Bb vent open.
Ill try again with the pictures.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-09-27 18:50
Oh okay. There is an easy fix for that.
If you look at the mechanism you should see a "rocker" which is usually made of white plastic but is sometimes made of metal. When the main key is let go of this rocker holds down the keys for both vents. To fix your problem simply insert a small buffer cork in between the rocker and the register vent key.
If it doesn't work at first try a thicker cork.
If this doesn't work I have one more idea.
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-28 14:03
When nothing is pressed, both keys seal fine and are not leaking.
The only problem is when the Register key is pressed with no other keys down, both the Bb vent and register vent open widely. Only the Bb should open.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-28 20:34
What make of bass is it?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-28 21:48
It's the Jupiter resin one piece.
I'll put a picture up.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-28 21:48
It's the Jupiter resin one piece.
I'll put a picture up.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-28 21:54
Sorry about all the double posts.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-28 21:54
Attachment: DSC_0568.jpg (727k)
Sorry about all the double posts.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
Post Edited (2014-09-28 22:01)
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-09-28 22:20
In picture 3 of your last post,
That is the rocker that needs extra pieces of cork on it. It's design is to make sure that only one of the vents can be open at a time.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-09-28 22:43
What's really strange is that the rocker's bumper corks don't look really chafed - could it be possible that the two arms of the rocker have been bent down (maybe from a trauma like when the instrument fell off its stand)?
Also, the corresponding part on the "thumb" arm seems to have had a plastic shield that somehow has managed to come off.
(see http://musik.hochstrasser.org/files/Galerie/BassRegisterMechanism/BundyBassRegisterMechanism.mp4 for a short video about a (working) register mechanism on a Bundy Bass - it's the same as in your Jupiter)
--
Ben
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-29 00:16
That's had some serious trauma so there's a lot of straightening out to do. A lot of the keywork has been bent on it which is the main problem.
Whereabouts in the UK are you? I'll have that all sorted out within an hour if you were able to bring it over to me.
I just worked on a mid to late '90s Buffet RC Prestige bass today which had some adjustment problems with its double speaker mechanism - these earlier Buffet basses have a speaker mechanism far more complex than they really need to be, so glad they revised their design in the current model (from 1999) which is far simpler.
As Ben said, the Jupiter's speaker mechanism is like that of a Bundy bass. Vito basses have a similar speaker mechanism but with the rocker lying right against the joint surface.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-09-29 00:34
(FWIW the newer and/or the two-part-bodied Jupiters have the Vito-style (sideways rocker) mechanism.)
--
Ben
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-29 00:59
Chris,
Would you recommend things for me to try first?
Being 15, I cant afford to take instruments to technicians very often, and while I would like the local music services instruments to be regularly checked over, I and they simply cant afford it.
I would be grateful if you could recommend things to do.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-29 01:29
There's a lot of keywork bending to do there which I wouldn't recommend you do as you could do a load more damage if you don't bend things correctly or in the right places.
Is it your own bass or is it on loan?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-29 01:36
Its not mine,
It belongs to the council.
I think Ive actually sorted it, although there is noise coming from the rocker when it hits the body.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-29 01:42
The underside of the rocker should be completely flat instead of being curved downwards at the ends, so remove the rocker, put the rod screw in the key barrel and gently bend the rocker so the underside is flat when placed on a table or against a straight edge. The rod screw is left in the key barrel to be sure it doesn't collapse while bending the rocker which could happen.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2014-09-29 03:16)
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Author: BbMajorBoy
Date: 2014-09-29 01:46
Ive solved this problem by building up with layers of thick cork.
Chris,
In the first picture, how would I go about removing the double action?
And in the second, is this far enough for the key to open?
Thanks Chris, you have been extremely helpful with this repair.
Leonard Bernstein: "To achieve great things, two things are needed; a plan, and not quite enough time."
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-09-29 02:34
#2 looks about right.
#1 short of bending (which in turn might affect the rest of the whole contraption), either leave as-is or insert a layer if postcard or cork between pieces. (before you glue, do a dry run to see if it behaves as it should)
In any case, inform the powers in charge that this fix is temporary and the instrument needs professional care at the next opportunity.
--
Ben
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-09-29 02:57
For the double action, if the keys are adjusted now but there's double action, adding cork/whatever or bending just that touchpiece would ruin this adjustment. You need to bend either the touchpiece and key, or the stop, or add cork (I usually don't use cork) to the stop of the key. Look where the key stops when you operate it.
Re the original problem, I would deal with it the same way I've dealt with my bass clarinet register mechnaism the first time I had a problem. It's the same way I deal with similar problems now. Analyze the mechanism, understand what each part is supposed to do and correct and.or improve any parts that are not doing that, or not doing it well. The difference is the first time took me many times longer than it would take me now.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2014-09-29 22:27
To be frank even these student bass clarinets are not cheap. The local music service should be prepared to have it sorted by a competent tech. The authorities all claim poverty yet the teachers still get paid!
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